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VERY difficult mare?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post
    The OP states that the horse has difficult and unpredictable behavior both under saddle and on the ground. Even if it were possible (I think it is largely fantasy to think that there is a someone out there that both wants and has the capacity to handle a difficult/dangerous equine pasture ornament and the money for 20 years of retirement care) it just isn't ethical. Good intentions (wanting to save a horse) do not cancel out the major wrongness of passing on a dangerous animal to another owner.

    Secondly, I know several "homes" that would accept such a horse with plenty of very legitimate sounding reassurances about a lifetime of green grass and even pictures of a nice farm, but I'm afraid they use the phrase "a lifetime of green grass" when they actually mean "she will be on the slaughter truck tomorrow."
    Oh look, COTH disagreeing exactly as I said they would
    I actually know a retired racehorse who is extremely dangerous under saddle and was also when being led, especially when it thought it might be worked that day. It was a rearer though, not a spinner. Once it was out of work for a month the behavior stopped completely on the ground. It is now a very safe horse on the ground. Just don't saddle the thing. So no, not a large fantasy. I have seen true pasture turnout fix a lot of problems, behavioral and physical. And lastly, you could sell a perfectly good riding horse and it ends up in a kill pen somewhere. It is a risk you taste every time you sell a horse. I know a pony who sold for 50k, changed hands a few times ended up in a kill pen and was still rideable.
    I know COTH disagrees with this. But it is an option OP has, and in some cases it does work. Some horses calm down a lot as a pasture pet, and euthanizing an otherwise healthy 7 year old is a ethical problem in its own. It's a choice OP has to make, and it is a hard one!

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    • #42
      She's not on Purina, I don't particularly like the brand as I feel very strongly that it was the reason a previous horse of mine had colic. She was on Legends Sport Horse Plus due to her being in a moderate-heavy work load when she isn't a brat
      I couldn't find the nutritional information about this particular feed but I bet there is too much NSC in it!!

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      • #43
        Sounds to me like she may be herd bound and doesn't see you as the leader.

        Do you make her work her butt off when she acts up under saddle ? It's okay to get off if you don't feel safe, however I'd lunge the snot out of her so it's even more work than doing what you asked originally.

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        • Original Poster

          #44
          I contacted the company, it is 32% NSC! That is indeed very high, and I will immediately begin the process of changing grain.

          I do try and make her work extra hard when she acts up under saddle. Usually by lunging (just on a regular lunge line in her tack, I don't take the time to put anything else on or take anything off because I try for a seamless "you reared so now you immediately lunge")

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          • #45
            I have a mare who I suspect was drugged when I bought her, kicked, reared, balked, and was an all around jerk.

            I started the clicker training with a fence between me and her. Got her attention, rewarded for ears forward and a pleasant expression, progressed to some targeting. She stopped being sullen, started accepting my leadership, we have been pals for over 9 years now. My husband had encouraged me to sell her when she was at her worst. I told him, nope, I CANT sell her to anyone but the meat man as long as she's like this. I think part of her trouble was being an underwormed itchy mess, but a lot more was her previous owner rode drunk a lot more than sober.

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            • #46
              If you are set on keeping her, I would send her to a trainer. Take the time to find a really good one, even if it's a bit farther, more expensive or they have a waiting list. Doesn't have to be a "cowboy", but it does have to be someone who knows how to start and re-start problem horses, and has a good track record of doing so.

              If her issues are primarily bad training, a good trainer should be able to fix them, and show you how to maintain the results. If her issues are related to discomfort, you'll more likely see a small, inconsistent improvement (or none at all), and then regression to old or new evasive behaviors.

              Horses are mostly pretty logical animals, if you let them know that shenanigans don't get them anywhere, they tend to stop pretty quick. But if they're trying to tell you that something hurts, they will usually keep trying to tell you until you listen.

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              • #47
                You have done more than most to try & understand your mare's behavior. Perhaps, next step is to talk to a animal communicator. Your vet may even know someone or look up many tends on this site....

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                • #48
                  Please do change food in the meantime. It made wonders for my pony who ended becoming mine because he was deemed too dangerous to mount (for the children at the school) And certainly he was, not that he was unwilling to work but when he would spook (and he did it very often) he jumped out of his skin and ran like a devil. When he bucked after a jump, well, it took a tough teenager or an adult to stand his bucks.

                  I just changed his foot and worked on the ground with him. Now he does only dressage (he hates jumping) and there are the odd spook and shy but nothing a child cannot negotiate. Not for beginners of course but children also grow out of placid school horses.

                  Do not be tempted to change it overnight though. Take a week to 10 days to make the complete change, and then allow for another week for her body to get rid off the explosive energy.

                  You can try the other advices in the meantime: clicker training, lunging, look for a really good re-trainer or animal communicator.

                  And evaluate again after the feed change. Have you ever thought of adding magnesium and tryptophan to the equation?

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by jeano View Post
                    I have a mare who I suspect was drugged when I bought her, kicked, reared, balked, and was an all around jerk.

                    I started the clicker training with a fence between me and her. Got her attention, rewarded for ears forward and a pleasant expression, progressed to some targeting. She stopped being sullen, started accepting my leadership, we have been pals for over 9 years now. My husband had encouraged me to sell her when she was at her worst. I told him, nope, I CANT sell her to anyone but the meat man as long as she's like this. I think part of her trouble was being an underwormed itchy mess, but a lot more was her previous owner rode drunk a lot more than sober.
                    Good example of starting CT with protected contact. Glad it worked for you, and you found a nice horse in there!
                    "When I look back on my life, the times I have been stingy or unappreciative haunt me. I don't regret one instance of generosity." --PeteyPie

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by HidingInShadow View Post
                      I contacted the company, it is 32% NSC! That is indeed very high, and I will immediately begin the process of changing grain.

                      I do try and make her work extra hard when she acts up under saddle. Usually by lunging (just on a regular lunge line in her tack, I don't take the time to put anything else on or take anything off because I try for a seamless "you reared so now you immediately lunge")
                      Also check if to see if there is any corn in the feed. Sometimes there is even tho not labeled. Corn and TBs often do not mix well.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Your posts sound so much like my last trak gelding. I never knew if i would get jeckell or hyde on any given day.

                        Vets had cleared him many times (though in the end he was retired at 11 due to soundness issues). I'm no pro especially riding but on the ground not much fazes me and i'm very confident.

                        What helped
                        - like others said a basic basic diet - off all or as much sugar as possible. I effectively put him on a EPSM diet and saw a dramatic improvement and then slowly introduced other easy to source/cheaper feeds on a trail and error basis. But he was always the best while on the full EPSM diet (and he i had lots of fun keeping him from getting too fat as it was). I was able to successfully keep him on grass paddocks in the end though.

                        - I had always been a "groundwork" person and have a lot of different training with different trainers on that so this horse had a lot of ground work of various types done. He was not a horse that could be given an inch without trying to take a mile. So no matter what every handling session started with liberty work so i could assess his mood then progress to in hand work and then tacking up and saddling. Some days i never even got pas the liberty work and others i literally only got on then got off and put him away. Those days got rarer and overall i had a better and better horse but it did take literally years. On good days he was totally with me and i could (and did) ride with nothing on his head - got dared once i'd never be able to ride him in a halter let alone just a neck rope so me being me challenge accepted (it did take ma while). I ended up getting him to 3rd level before he was retired but he was not a horse i would show much as he just wasn't reliable enough.

                        Anyway good luck - its not an easy journey. I'm glad i took it as he taught me more about horse management and horsemanship than any other but i still clearly remember the relief (and then guilt) i felt when i realized the journey was done and he should be retired.

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                        • #52
                          Hi Op, just wondering if there is an update?

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