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Spinoff: WWYD, Lethal white foals...

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  • Spinoff: WWYD, Lethal white foals...

    Pretend the field across the road from your farm is leased by someone who lives elsewhere in the area. There's a stud out there, with a couple of mares. Horses eat what they can find in the field and the water is on an automatic float valve/big tank. In other words, no daily or even weekly care. Just horses in a field.

    One mare is a carrier for Lethal White (OLWS). So is the stallion. As a result, the foal has a 25% chance of exhibiting OLWS. (L/L)

    Foal is born with OLWS. You call owner to tell him he's got a foal on the ground who's not doing well. He doesn't come or send anyone. Foal is just left to die, which he does. Meanwhile you've called the county, but food/water/shelter isn't an issue, to the letter of the law, there's nothing to pursue, or at least...nothing is pursued.

    Stud is still there, mare too. She's heavy in foal. Could be another.

    Last edited by katarine; Feb. 19, 2009, 04:08 PM. Reason: correcting my math and genetics error

  • #2
    I'd check the statute and be sure that providing veterinary care isn't part of the deal because in many states it is. And if AC doesn't want to do anything about it and another foal dies? I'd start calling TV stations.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    • #3
      I believe the genetic chances are 25% that the foal will carry the lethal mutation, not 50%.

      Sounds like the horses are generally neglected, though, and I'd be more worried about the ones that are alive than the possible doomed foals.
      Click here before you buy.


      • #4
        Contact local (or even not so local) horse rescue organization for help?


        • #5
          25% is right...

          Lethal foals are L/L, their parents are N/L and normal horses are N/N. So if you breed a N/L horse to a N/L horse (the only way to get an L/L) you get 25% chance of N/N, 50% chance of N/L and 25% chance of L/L.

          Take lots of pictures (did you get any of the dead foal?) and keep calling - veterinary care is required in most places......


          • #6
            After the foal died and you called the owner, did anyone come and dispose of the body? If not, it seems the county would want to know about it. Its a shame. I don't know what could be done. Does the owner understand about lethal white? Could you try educating him? I'm guessing the answer to that last question is no, since educating him about proper horse care is probably in order first.


            • Original Poster

              Should have clarified, this didn't happen to me directly. But it did happen and will again.

              Thanks for the clarification on 25% being right- I didn't think 50% sounded right LOL.

              Owner knows the stud is N/L, and the mare has proven to be N/L too with the birth of this foal, ASSuming he didn't know before. He was informed the foal was laying there dying and did nothing. Not one thing. Buzzards/coyotes got the corpse.

              I don't see TV getting set up to cover one foal in one field. I don't see a very rural county going after this guy. I will suggest it, of course. I just don't see it happening.

              Anyone venturing to guess or offer what a lethal dose of banamine, ace, or maybe air in the vein/artery feel free to PM me. If this mare drops another one, the least that might be done is some neighborly euthanasia that doesn't leave a mark.


              • #8
                There isn't anything that isn't controlled that would be ok to euthanize the foal with according to the AVMAs Panel on Euthanasia. Gunshot is conditionally acceptable if the person is trained in how to do it. Animal control is probably the only resource here - just keep calling and call local officials too.


                • Original Poster

                  I understand the constraints you are under animaldoc. Appreciate your input.


                  • #10
                    I believe providing vet care to a sick horse is mandatory in most states. Check out your state laws and call the police.


                    • #11
                      You can't cure stupidity. It's one thing if people don't realize the parents are carriers but if they do, it's criminally stupid. Unfortunately, I doubt there is much you can do legally. Could you talk to them and explain the risks of them losing a foal if they continue to allow those two horses to breed?


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dwblover View Post
                        I believe providing vet care to a sick horse is mandatory in most states. Check out your state laws and call the police.
                        Many states require only food and water be on the premises. Period. A number of them don't even require shelter for livestock, never mind mandatory vet care.

                        Regarding chemical euthanasia: unless you plan to remove and properly dispose of the carcass, don’t do it. You’ll be poisoning any wildlife that thinks of it as food.


                        • Original Poster

                          Good point. Breadsacks and smothering may be the best option.

                          These poor neighbors had to just watch that mare protect her dying foal for 2-3 days. They are reasonably worried about this years foal.

                          This guy can't be taught. he's been talked to, it doesn't stick. Teach him about what risks? Explain what? That they die? Not to be obtuse but that lesson was amply displayed for all to see about 9 months ago. These are cheap fugly-esque horses and he's got more elsewhere. Again, you assume he kin lern. I think we're well past schoolin time, honestly. It ain't gonna stick.

                          Assuming we're all capable of learning, of loving, of being responsible, is a nice way to think, but a hard way to live when you meet those who will not be taught, who will not learn, and cannot care.


                          • #14
                            So the stud stays out with the mares after they foal? Even if the foal isn't a LW, I would think there could be considerable danger to it just by being in the same pasture as the stallion. Poor babies.

                            *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*


                            • Original Poster

                              Pasture studs don't bother me, personally. If he'd knock the sick ones off, especially.

                              sucks all round. I did look up the statutes for the state in question...abandoned animals can be dispatched by 'the man' if two citizens call on them about it and the animal is in such a state as to warrant it, and there's room for misdemeanor charges of cruel neglect. That's about it. I provided it to the peeps in question.


                              • #16
                                This happens too often and is why 98% of horse/dog/cat owners should not be allowed to breed their animals...............or themselves.


                                • #17
                                  "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"


                                  • #18
                                    ---"Anyone venturing to guess or offer what a lethal dose of banamine, ace, or maybe air in the vein/artery feel free to PM me. If this mare drops another one, the least that might be done is some neighborly euthanasia that doesn't leave a mark."---

                                    Breaking the law by tresspassing and euthanizing someone else's foal, even if you think it is dying?

                                    If everyone felt so sure they knew what they were doing and we think it is ok to right wrongs by breaking laws to do so, we would be in trouble.

                                    Imagine all those that think fly masks is someone blindfolding their horses so they don't jump the fences and go in there and try to take the "blindfolds" off so the horsies can see?

                                    Better don't try to go there, but find someone at a newspaper or TV station to do a story on that, to inform the public that LW can happen and by the way, it did happen and the fellow didn't believe it and keeps doing it.


                                    • #19
                                      Not much you can do. Is a shame about the first foal, hopefully the second won't suffer the same fate. However, even big breeders with fancy farms will breed to OLWS carriers, and take their chances. Is it right? no. Can you or I do anything about it? no.


                                      • #20
                                        This paint breeder seems to have lethal white foals and is confused about the genetics. It seems like easy genetics. Read the last question on this page. http://www.stallingspainthorses.com/lethal-white1.htm Poor babies....
                                        www.grayfoxfarms.com Home of Redwine, Aloha, Federalist, Romantic Star and Rated R.