• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

tell me about flying horses (I mean in an airplane, not Pegasuses!)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • tell me about flying horses (I mean in an airplane, not Pegasuses!)

    This is more of a general question. My friend is thinking of taking her horse with her when she moves to Austria from New Zealand later this year. So we are getting quotes and looking into quarantine, etc.

    But it got me wondering how horses are kept on flights - in box stalls? Stanchions? Are they tranquilized for the flight? Is the cabin heated? Is a vet tech down there with them?

    I realize that Olympics and eventing horses fly to competitions overseas. How long does it take for them to acclimate to their new environment? Has anyone looked at the health consequences of air travel on horses?

  • #2
    They either fly in a cargo plane or in the cargo section of a passenger plane. KLM for example uses passenger planes with x numbers of horse containers in the cargo section of selected flights.

    No, no heating in cargo section.

    They fly in containers. Economy class is 3 horses per container (2 dividers), business is 2 per container and first class is one horse per container.
    There's usually one groom (trained to administer sedation if needed) per container or per 3 horses.
    Some agents can arrange for the owner to be allowed to travel with the horses in cargo section free of charge.
    They get hay in the containers and get offered water every couple of hours.
    If you google you should be able to find pictures of how they travel.

    The majority of time horses fly very well, no sedation needed and horses consider it no different then standing in a trailer, other then the noise really. My horses however did not do well, freaked out big time and needed to be sedated repeatedly during the flight.

    Make sure you verify quarantaine regulations for NZ to Europe and start the paperwork early enough. For US to EU for example you need to start no later then 3 mths ahead.

    Comment


    • #3
      EEC Import health regulations equidae from New Zealand
      Group B
      http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0070101-en.pdf


      Interesting article about flying horses in horse.com
      http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=8012

      Picture of horses ready in container
      http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...&ct=image&cd=1
      (PS, just my experience, horses over 16.3hh travel better in a 2 stall container rather then 3 stall container)

      And more pictures
      http://www.klmcargo.com/tds/frameset.../fithorses.jsp
      http://www.imbertjeanmarc.com/austra...%20descent.jpg
      http://www.imbertjeanmarc.com/austra...9;en%20bas.jpg
      http://www.imbertjeanmarc.com/austra...%20content.jpg
      Last edited by Lieslot; Jan. 26, 2009, 04:09 PM. Reason: correction + added more

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ellebeaux
        Has anyone looked at the health consequences of air travel on horses?
        Heart arrytmia has happened to horses as result of travel stress, remember Courtney King's Mythilus went into A-fib when arriving in HK.

        I think once they are off the plane horses acustom quickly. But weather acclimatization can be difficult when moving from Southern to Nothern climates and vice versas.
        What if you move horses from a winter NZ climate into the EU summer? I've known some Australian TB's coming to the UK for polo and they clipped them upon arrival. They seemed to do well.

        Comment


        • #5
          We brought our horse from Holland to Canada during the frigid months of winter. He travelled KLM and was quarantined in the U.S. by a company called "Jet Pets". They were top notch. They contacted me as soon as they had him in their possession, advised me of his health upon arrival and kept me informed the total 72 hours he was quarantined. He travelled very well. The only glitch I had in the whole process (which I put together within a 2 week period) was Canadian Customs. The Custom agent I hired lost the Bill of Sale and was not going to let him cross. I was a good 16 hours away from the border. Thankfully the transport company I had hired to bring him across the border was aggressive in getting him across. Amazingly, after some digging, my Custom agent located the Bill of Sale and he was free to go. All in all, I found every agent and company I dealt with was very helpful and professional. The whole experience was painless.

          Comment


          • #6
            My guy was imported from New Zealand to US almost 2 years ago. He was stressed and had to be tranquilized, by the time he finally arrived to the barn (quarantine in NZ, flight, quarantine in Los Angeles, ride to Bay Area) he was a nut case, lost a lot of weight and it took him about 2 weeks to come down, but he is always a "special" horse. He had nasal discharge which we couldnt get rid of for about two months after the travel. Two years later his is still on NZ seasons change but its gotten a lot better and shedding is finally under control

            Comment


            • #7
              There is never any "sedation" administered pre flight or during the flight. At the high altitudes, it generally has the opposite effect to what you were looking for ...

              Now for those that are saying their horses WERE sedated, I wonder if rules have changed since we last flew a client's horses which was about 8-9 years ago ... it was a huge no-no and the clients had to sign waivers stating that their horses had not been sedated. They end up sitting in the airline warehouse for about 2 hours pre flight anyhow, and then from the time they leave, head over to the ramp and get loaded, that takes another hour, so if any sedation had been administered prior to arrival it would have worn off in that 3 hour period. And I do agree - 99% of them travel well - its usually the owners that are freaking out ...

              The trained grooms carry "Euthanasia Kits" and not sedation. If a 1200 lb animal is flipping out at 35,000 ft and is at risk of kicking through the container and then the fuselage, they are euthanized very very quickly

              We did a lot of shipping for the Canadian Equestrian team and some private horses as well (I owned a freight and logistics company) and the horses were interesting but pretty "normal" to handle. The interesting shipments came from zoo's and wild animal shippers when we got to handle swans, lions, tigers and cheetah's. We quoted on 3 elephants going from Canada to South Africa and back again but the only aircraft that could handle the mature bull elephant was the Russian Antonov and at USD $300,000.00 each way, it was a little TOO pricey for their budgets ...

              With the large cats, the euthanasia kit is called a gun as none of the handlers are inclined to try and find a vein in a freaked out lion at 35,000 ft ...
              www.TrueColoursFarm.com
              www.truecoloursproducts.com

              True Colours Farm on Facebook

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TrueColours
                There is never any "sedation" administered pre flight or during the flight. At the high altitudes, it generally has the opposite effect to what you were looking for ...
                They often have no choice, I had 3 18hh+ horses starting to break down the container during take off. The flying groom contacted the ground veterinarian on guidelines as to doses, coz sedating at high altitudes affects horses totally different, that's very correct. I have no idea on the substance they used.
                My one horse was trying to rear up and then got his leg and head through the grooms door whilst the groom had to get help from a neighboring container groom to sedate my other two.
                I'm glad I didn't witness it. I had the opportunity to fly with them, but I'm glad I declined. Then when unloading my one guy got stuck again in the grooming door when he saw his mates being unloaded. But once on the truck to quarantaine and all reunited they thankfully settled. And once at their new home they settled as soon as they found carrots & apples in their manger .

                I wonder if mine would have done better if they'd each travelled with a total strange horse, (hopefully better travelled horse) rather then with each other, coz one was separated from the other two and it was sort of mayhem from separation onwards.

                I do have to say the flying grooms are very experienced and are trained dealing with panicking horses.

                Mine flew in spring 2005, perhaps rules changed again. I do know they were 'not' allowed any type of calming or medication prior to flying without pre-approval or being listed on the health document.


                I so hope we will stay in the US and not move back to Europe, as I fear for my boys if they have to be flown back.

                Comment


                • #9
                  MOST horses handle the flight pretty well. If they travel well on the road, they usually can deal with the plane ride. And most will tell you it is EASIER on them to fly, when we're talking about fatigue.

                  And I have ALWAYS been told that horses get very little chance to calm down if they act up. If it looks like there is a risk of the horse getting bad, they are put down...swiftly. Part of my hesitation to fly with horses...that would be hard for me!
                  Amanda

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lieslot View Post
                    I think once they are off the plane horses acustom quickly. But weather acclimatization can be difficult when moving from Southern to Nothern climates and vice versas.
                    Half of my horses were born in Brazil. The came in by air without any incident. About half went from the tropics to Northern Ohio. The acclimatized pretty easily.

                    G.
                    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Some things to consider, depending on your shipping company. The horse may have to go to the shipping company's "farm" or a holding facility a few days prior to flying, due to scheduling and/or medical testing requirements. Quarantine on the receiving end can be one week or more. So your horse's trip can be upwards of two weeks of strange places and travel, as well as different food and water. It is good to have the horse gain some weight before traveling as the trip will cause them to lose a good bit of weight.

                      Once they arrive, if the seasons are opposite, be prepared to give them a full body clip in the spring as they will start growing winter coats in the spring. They also may not grow a good winter coat in their first winter as their bodies haven't fully adjusted, and may need blanketing in a cooler climate. Everything in their environment is different and can trigger allergic reactions. For the first couple of weeks be very vigilant for respiratory issues. You may want to monitor temperature for the first couple of weeks as well.

                      All that said, I had three come from South America to the Mid-Atlantic this past March, and had no major issues. It was pretty traumatizing for them however. Especially if the seasons are opposite, don't expect them to perform up to par for several months if not a full year until their bodies are adjusted. They are fine for a couple of months, then they can crash and not be the same for quite some time.

                      Edited to add - if the horse is valuable and is insured, you may need to add a "rider" to your policy for air travel.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Wow, excellent info! I will pass this on to her. I always find travelling overseas pretty exhausting and I know it's coming. I can't imagine what goes on in a horse's brain.

                        Thanks all!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm terrified of flying and the only times I've had good flights are with the horses. These were all racehorses I flew with and never a bother on anyone. There's something calming about horses eating hay very quietly during take off and landing. Best flight ever was a Fed-Ex flight with me, the pilots, one horse and loads of packages. I had great meals and got to sit up front with the pilots. As I explained to them I was afraid of flying, they took the time to point everything out and make me realize it really was safe. At one stage the woke me up to show me the Rocky Mountains. I would take a flight with horses over a commercial flight any time!

                          Terri
                          COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                          "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X