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your experience with Colic surgery outcome

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  • #41
    Hey there, ArabDiva,

    Don't beat yourself up!

    I was lucky enough to SEE my gelding start his torsion right in front of me, while he was standing in the pasture. He'd worked earlier in the day, and then spent about 3 hours grazing, and he was snoozing in the sun. I was watching him, and saw the colic develop. I was on the phone to my vet within 10 minutes of the start of the problem, he was here in 5 (my local clinic is very close), and he had determined that we had a major problem within another 10. That did give me a head start on the narrow window of time, but only a small one - in spite of all the drugs he had on board the pain resurfaced in a major way 28 minutes from the time of our arrival at the surgical facility. The horse was heading into anaesthesia in another 10 minutes. At no time was there rolling, but we still had to deal with a double torsion and displacement. The surgeon told me that all it takes is a mis-timing of normal peristaltic rhythm in the intestines coupled with a gas bubble. We were also very lucky in that we had immediate access to a surgeon who does colic surgeries every day, and his team, who were amazing. All of that and the grace of God gave us a positive outcome, but if I hadn't been home, and hadn't taken the time to stand and enjoy my horse's relaxation it would have been very different, and no one would have been at fault. We do the best we can with the hand we're dealt, and I'm sure you did the same.

    Comment


    • #42
      Not *MY* personal experience, but an old neighbor of mine; I used to ride with her daughter. I honestly don't know every little detail about the surgery, but I do know she had a Appy gelding that had prior issues with colic.

      One day during a lesson I was sharing with her, "Chief" went down during the middle of the ride, with rider still in tow. We walked him for hours, had the vet out and was told he needed surgery immediately. One month and $6k later, he was back home. I remember he was on a VEEERY strict diet and it was touch and go for a little while. His mom was a nervous wreck.

      He wound up colicing again not even two months after the surgery and had to be put down. Very sad and expensive. Strangely, owner mentioned she would haven't changed any of the decisions she made regarding the surgery.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by dbliron1 View Post
        Hey there, ArabDiva,

        Don't beat yourself up!

        I was lucky enough to SEE my gelding start his torsion right in front of me, while he was standing in the pasture. He'd worked earlier in the day, and then spent about 3 hours grazing, and he was snoozing in the sun. I was watching him, and saw the colic develop. I was on the phone to my vet within 10 minutes of the start of the problem, he was here in 5 (my local clinic is very close), and he had determined that we had a major problem within another 10. That did give me a head start on the narrow window of time, but only a small one - in spite of all the drugs he had on board the pain resurfaced in a major way 28 minutes from the time of our arrival at the surgical facility. The horse was heading into anaesthesia in another 10 minutes. At no time was there rolling, but we still had to deal with a double torsion and displacement. The surgeon told me that all it takes is a mis-timing of normal peristaltic rhythm in the intestines coupled with a gas bubble. We were also very lucky in that we had immediate access to a surgeon who does colic surgeries every day, and his team, who were amazing. All of that and the grace of God gave us a positive outcome, but if I hadn't been home, and hadn't taken the time to stand and enjoy my horse's relaxation it would have been very different, and no one would have been at fault. We do the best we can with the hand we're dealt, and I'm sure you did the same.
        I had one happen right in front of my eyes too. One of my homebred "babies" who was 20. I didn't include that in my first post as I'm probably still not over it and "repressing".

        She was fine one minute, then started refluxing immediately, which meant small intestine and high up. The most problematic torsions are in the small intestine. They are not as "forgiving" after surgery as the large, so that is something to consider IF you field vet can even assess that (often not-- in her case we could).

        My vet, God love him raced over. Rectal palpation, meds, etc, tubed, but kept refluxing.

        No way should could have made it to the surgical facility just 1/2 away, so I let her go her at home in the indoor arena on a soft landing, in her own surroundings. From the first signs, it was all over within 2 hours. Shocking really, but then I'd dealt with torsions before. Still, I felt like I'd been hit by a 2x4 as it all happened so fast.

        I was the first face she saw when I delivered her and the last one when she died. I'm grateful for that and I'm sure it was better for her as well.

        Calling the shots on these types of things are not easy. Never ever easy.
        www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
        "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
        Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

        Comment


        • #44
          I think the take home message here is that even the best managed horses can have episodes of whatever, impaction, colics, twists, etc. We all love our horses, we would do anything for them, but if the worst happens, to not beat ourselves up about it. There are lots of reasons of why these things happen, but the individual horse, and the owner's financial ability, come into the hard decisions. Sometimes it is not in the cards to do heroic measures.
          Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by sid View Post

            I was the first face she saw when I delivered her and the last one when she died. I'm grateful for that and I'm sure it was better for her as well.
            Made me cry. That is really sad, but very special :-)

            Comment


            • #46
              Thank you sid, and others, for your kind words.
              They really help my grief.

              Originally posted by dbliron1 View Post
              Hey there, ArabDiva,

              Don't beat yourself up!

              I was lucky enough to SEE my gelding start his torsion right in front of me, while he was standing in the pasture. He'd worked earlier in the day, and then spent about 3 hours grazing, and he was snoozing in the sun. I was watching him, and saw the colic develop. I was on the phone to my vet within 10 minutes of the start of the problem, he was here in 5 (my local clinic is very close), and he had determined that we had a major problem within another 10. That did give me a head start on the narrow window of time, but only a small one - in spite of all the drugs he had on board the pain resurfaced in a major way 28 minutes from the time of our arrival at the surgical facility. The horse was heading into anaesthesia in another 10 minutes. At no time was there rolling, but we still had to deal with a double torsion and displacement. The surgeon told me that all it takes is a mis-timing of normal peristaltic rhythm in the intestines coupled with a gas bubble. We were also very lucky in that we had immediate access to a surgeon who does colic surgeries every day, and his team, who were amazing. All of that and the grace of God gave us a positive outcome, but if I hadn't been home, and hadn't taken the time to stand and enjoy my horse's relaxation it would have been very different, and no one would have been at fault. We do the best we can with the hand we're dealt, and I'm sure you did the same.
              Thank you for sharing this illustration of just how fast it can happen. Very informative. Sounds a lot like my mare -- "in spite of all the drugs on board", she had a brief window of respite and then got bad again.

              Your story confirms that there was nothing I could have done, so thank you.

              Comment


              • #47
                Understand that any time you open up a horse for surgery, there's risks. Especially if the intestine/ colon/ cecum what-have-you had been deprived of oxygen and become fragile. The way it was explained to me is, in the course of moving/ touching the intestine once it's in this condition, each finger print runs the risk of bruising the tissue. Each bruise will then secrete a type of sticky protein that THEN runs the risk of becoming an adhesion.

                So, if your'e going to do colic surgery, regardless of the reason (torsion, displacement, impaction, lipoma, resection/ anastomosis) it's best to get that done ASAP, or the risk of adhesions goes up exponentially. I've seen many cut more than once and when they go in the 2nd time all's well except those damned adhesions.

                Having said that, yes I would do colic surgery for displacement and/ or torsion in certain circumstances. Resections, not so much, and it would depends upon age of horse, section to be removed, and how long they'd been painful. Small intestine resections are extremely painful and rehab can be dicey.

                Colon removal is an on-the-fence thing for me, because in most cases it means a lifetime of modified diet. At least in my experience.

                Interesting story for those of you unable to do sx for displacement: Ask your vet about laying them down and flipping them over once or twice in the hopes of moving things back where they should be. Old vet friend of mine will do this for folks who cannot afford surgery, and by gum he's saved more than a few this way.

                its a good thing his clinic had a driveway with a hill

                Comment


                • #48
                  Sansena - Yes, the surgeon my mare went to did a number of things before deciding to make the incision (she's had two displacements, one right and one left). If I remember correctly they did the roll over thing just before surgery, and ultrasounded to see if it had worked. In her case, unfortunately, it didn't.

                  They also did a procedure where a needle or catheter or something was put in her side to release the built up gas, also in hopes that the colon would then be able to move back into place. Nada.
                  We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Sansena View Post
                    Understand that any time you open up a horse for surgery, there's risks. Especially if the intestine/ colon/ cecum what-have-you had been deprived of oxygen and become fragile. The way it was explained to me is, in the course of moving/ touching the intestine once it's in this condition, each finger print runs the risk of bruising the tissue. Each bruise will then secrete a type of sticky protein that THEN runs the risk of becoming an adhesion.

                    So, if your'e going to do colic surgery, regardless of the reason (torsion, displacement, impaction, lipoma, resection/ anastomosis) it's best to get that done ASAP, or the risk of adhesions goes up exponentially. I've seen many cut more than once and when they go in the 2nd time all's well except those damned adhesions.

                    Having said that, yes I would do colic surgery for displacement and/ or torsion in certain circumstances. Resections, not so much, and it would depends upon age of horse, section to be removed, and how long they'd been painful. Small intestine resections are extremely painful and rehab can be dicey.

                    Colon removal is an on-the-fence thing for me, because in most cases it means a lifetime of modified diet. At least in my experience.

                    Interesting story for those of you unable to do sx for displacement: Ask your vet about laying them down and flipping them over once or twice in the hopes of moving things back where they should be. Old vet friend of mine will do this for folks who cannot afford surgery, and by gum he's saved more than a few this way.

                    its a good thing his clinic had a driveway with a hill
                    You know, I have heard of this -- but for rotated colons that have flipped over and can typically felt with rectal palpation, and of course for uterine torsions, early on in the events.

                    I would doubt this could help a small intestine strangulation. But you, know it does make one wonder whether these were actually gas (spasmotic) colics.

                    When my PG mare had her stragulation (reference in my first post), I asked my vet if he cannot feel a displacement rectally or actually hear a "dead spot" with a stethascope, how do vets know which is a gas colic and which is a strangulation, as the onset of symptoms are almost identical.

                    He said.."the drugs don't work on a strangulation" (i.e. that can for a short period, but the symptoms come back quickly (short respite of pain) as ArabDiva so aptly noted.

                    This has been a good thread and very informative for those who have lost a horse to a torsion -- and info for what to look for if one faces that situation.

                    Despite the fact I did opt for surgery (Equine med surgical center is only 1/2 hour away), if it is deemed to be a strangulation - and I've dealt with all types of colics on all ages (I used to do post-surgical layups for the hospital), I'm more likely to let them go than I was in the past.

                    But then, I only have 7 of my original 23 horses and most of them are elderly now. Tough stuff when it happens and you have to make a quick decision.
                    www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                    "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                    Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Sansena View Post
                      Interesting story for those of you unable to do sx for displacement: Ask your vet about laying them down and flipping them over once or twice in the hopes of moving things back where they should be. Old vet friend of mine will do this for folks who cannot afford surgery, and by gum he's saved more than a few this way.

                      its a good thing his clinic had a driveway with a hill
                      I'm going to have to remember this!

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        I have put four on the table. Two came off and went on to happy productive lives. Two had to be let go on the table. I don't think I would do it again. The first was a two year old-my first homebred-with a nephrosplenic entrapment that did fine with the surgery, but developed EPM immediately (or probably already had it, but went full blown quickly with the trauma of surgery). EPM recovery was much harder than colic surgery recovery. No colic recurrence in the past 15 years. Sold to a friend many years ago and would have gone far if not for an eye injury that ended his career.
                        Second one was a three year old who died on the table. Congenital Diaphragmatic hernia the surgeon said. He internal organs were shutting down from the strain of the hernia.
                        Third was my favorite show horse, a cribber with frequent small bouts of colic that had been manageable up until the final episode. Horse was apparently one heck of a trouper as by the time he presented seriously enough for vet to recommend surgery, he had ruptured a vein the couldn't be repaired. Epiploic foramen entrapment.
                        Number four was a homebred 20 month old wussy that acted as if he was going to die at any moment. Since we lost #3 because we waited, clinic rushed this one onto the table-I authorized it-and it turned into the most expensive minor impaction I could fund. Likely would have resolved quickly and medically if we had been a little more patient. They weren't sure he had come through the surgery ok as he failed to thrive in the 10-12 days he stayed at clinic after surgery. I finally told them I was taking him home and he was all better. This horse still lives with me and is still a wuss about pain. But-knock on wood-no subsequent colic episodes.
                        I wish no one had to go through it, it's a tough call either way.
                        Trinity Hill Farm

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          I'll add.. to any of you who are blaming yourselves for colic, or making tough decisions about colic, please take a look at the digestive tract of the horse. The Invisible horse is a great tool.

                          After examining it, you'll see there's no good reason for it to operate as well as it does. Just rotten design..

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #53
                            Thank you everyone! I really appreciate everybody sharing there experiences. Weather to do colic surgery or not is certainly one of the most difficult decisions I hope I never have to make again.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              I'd also like to add my thanks to all of you who have shared your colic/surgery experiences and thoughts on this thread. We are fairly new horse owners (5 years now) and we lost a nine year old about a year and a half ago to colic. I made the decision not to go to surgery at 2 o'clock in the morning after dealing with this episode since 7 PM the day before. I question that decision almost every day. Since that night we have visited the nearest colic surgery center and have met the docs and toured the facilities, but as you all have pointed out here it would still be a hard decision that must be based on a lot of very important and unique factors.

                              Thanks again for sharing.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Well I've a rather unusual colic surgery case. Horse is insured. As I'm on the way to the barn the BM calls me to say horse has a funny sore on his belly - probably an infected tick/bug because it's oozed some and do I want to call the vet. Storm Sandy is on the way so yes to vet (nothing like needing antibiotics in the middle of a hurricane) I get there horse is clearly not himself and I realize he's colicky but vet's on her way. Then he goes down I scream for BO/BM. Vet comes treat for colic and fiddles w/ this weird swelling under his belly. Fast forward, swelling gets worst, horse in more distress off to Morven Park (fortunately only an hour away)
                                Triage vet exams, surgeon in OR w/ another colic, examination shows hole/tear in his abdomen and the best part - neither vet has ever seen anything like this before. UGH. I look at this magnificent animal in his stall and at that moment I feel I owe to him to give it a try. Off to surgery. The vet gives me the best/worst case scenario. The best is an unrepaired umbilical hernia, worst is abdominal tear. If it's a tear, that's it. I'm required to remain at the clinic in case I need to make "the call". In an amazingly short time, the vet gives me the thumbs up and repairs the hernia, puts his intestines back in place, sews him up. Done. 5 weeks post op, horse gets loose and decides to hop over the ring fence (4'6") Not exactly doctors orders... 2 days later he colics again and I'm not sure if it was the inexperienced vet (I think so) or what but it wouldn't resolve so we made the decision to go back to Morven Park. Never in a million years did I think I would do 1 surgery let alone back again so soon for another. But there is that face looking at me, maybe it's selfish of me that I am not ready to say goodbye. He's stoic, uncomfortable but not throwing himself around. Surgeon is very optimistic and surgery is done again in about 45 minutes. No resection.

                                I never thought I would put my horse thru surgery much less 2. Both surgeries cost me about $10K total so insurance covered most of it.

                                So I'm in the it depends camp. There are certainly plenty of success stories and plenty of not so successful stories. Curiously, a couple of weeks before my horse had his surgery another horse had colic surgery. This horse had multiple issues as he was a bit of a rescue, then he had to go in for repeat colic surgery also 5-6 weeks post-op. He had the rockiest post-operative course.. I think the vets came out every 3 nights because he was colicky and more than once the owner was prepared to put him down but the dang horse kept rallying. Don't you know he is doing wonderfully now!

                                I too wouldn't criticize anyone for whatever decision they made. It definitely easier to make the decision to go for surgery with insurance. Would I have made the same call if he wasn't insured? Honestly I don't know the answer to that question. Sorry for the long post.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I had one horse undergo colic surgery about a year and a half ago..first one I have ever had that required it. It was for a displacement. I had been up early that morning ultrasounding mares..he looked normal when he was turned out but when I had finished about an hour later he looked not right and had been rolling. Gave him Banamine and started walking him but within 45 minutes he was clearly in serious pain. We got him on the trailer and to the clinic right away where they confirmed displacement. They gave him about an hour on IV fluids to see if it would self correct but it didn't so they went in. There was no die off and he survived surgery. Unfortunately he had some weird problem with responding to antibiotics and went through a real touchy period where his gut stopped moving, temp spiked etc. But he survived and came home.

                                  He had another displacement about three months later. He was looking just not right at about 6 pm one night..I gave banamine and took him on a bumpy trailer ride. He responded really well and so put him to bed. I checked him at about 8 and he still looked good and then at 10 again. Breathed a big sigh of relief! Came back out at 1 am and he was a total wreck..horrible, horrible, thrashing around, could barely get him up. My vet thought he was not a candidate for another surgery because of the resistance to antibiotics (which was also a problem when he was castrated). Took him to the clinic and they couldn't even get a read on his pulse..he was so bad it was just awful. They decided to put him on massive pain killers and IV fluids etc and give him a bit of time. Early in the AM he had cast himself and my vet decided enough was enough..went to get the Euthenol and when she got him up his refill time was better. We think getting cast had resolved the displacement! So amazingly he survived.

                                  Interestingly, we now believe both of his colics were caused by ulcers. He was on and off a generic Omperazol product because he had been on stall rest for 6 months for a freak accident and I was worried he would develop them. But this explains why the Banamine "fixed" the colic in the second scenario...really it just took the ulcer pain away. When it came back he started rolling and thrashing and displaced. When we realized this we put him on 3 months of Gastrogard and turned the poor guy out in the field for 6 months and knock on wood big time he has been good ever since. Nothing works like GG in my opinion. Now when I suspect an ulcer or aim to prevent one I go straight to GG.

                                  Anyway, to get back to the main discussion, I have known a good number of other people's horses to have had colic surgery, some a number of times and the vast majority of times it was successful and horse returned to work. On a number of occasions these were/are high performance horses. I think a successful outcome greatly depends on getting the horse into surgery before serious damage has been done. If you are going to do it, don't wait!
                                  www.svhanoverians.com

                                  "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by Donella View Post
                                    I had one horse undergo colic surgery about a year and a half ago..first one I have ever had that required it. It was for a displacement. I had been up early that morning ultrasounding mares..he looked normal when he was turned out but when I had finished about an hour later he looked not right and had been rolling. Gave him Banamine and started walking him but within 45 minutes he was clearly in serious pain. We got him on the trailer and to the clinic right away where they confirmed displacement. They gave him about an hour on IV fluids to see if it would self correct but it didn't so they went in. There was no die off and he survived surgery. Unfortunately he had some weird problem with responding to antibiotics and went through a real touchy period where his gut stopped moving, temp spiked etc. But he survived and came home.

                                    He had another displacement about three months later. He was looking just not right at about 6 pm one night..I gave banamine and took him on a bumpy trailer ride. He responded really well and so put him to bed. I checked him at about 8 and he still looked good and then at 10 again. Breathed a big sigh of relief! Came back out at 1 am and he was a total wreck..horrible, horrible, thrashing around, could barely get him up. My vet thought he was not a candidate for another surgery because of the resistance to antibiotics (which was also a problem when he was castrated). Took him to the clinic and they couldn't even get a read on his pulse..he was so bad it was just awful. They decided to put him on massive pain killers and IV fluids etc and give him a bit of time. Early in the AM he had cast himself and my vet decided enough was enough..went to get the Euthenol and when she got him up his refill time was better. We think getting cast had resolved the displacement! So amazingly he survived.

                                    Interestingly, we now believe both of his colics were caused by ulcers. He was on and off a generic Omperazol product because he had been on stall rest for 6 months for a freak accident and I was worried he would develop them. But this explains why the Banamine "fixed" the colic in the second scenario...really it just took the ulcer pain away. When it came back he started rolling and thrashing and displaced. When we realized this we put him on 3 months of Gastrogard and turned the poor guy out in the field for 6 months and knock on wood big time he has been good ever since. Nothing works like GG in my opinion. Now when I suspect an ulcer or aim to prevent one I go straight to GG.

                                    Anyway, to get back to the main discussion, I have known a good number of other people's horses to have had colic surgery, some a number of times and the vast majority of times it was successful and horse returned to work. On a number of occasions these were/are high performance horses. I think a successful outcome greatly depends on getting the horse into surgery before serious damage has been done. If you are going to do it, don't wait!
                                    When you say you had him on gastrogard for three months what was your dosing protocol. My horse has been on gastrogard for the past two weeks since his colic and seems to be doing very well. I am going to keep him on it for at least eight weeks, thinking a full dose for four weeks, half dose for four more weeks and possibly 1/4 dose for another four weeks. Then adding some alfalfa and possibly and a preventive after the course of gastrogard. My horse did not have obvious signs of ulcers but I have feared them for some time. Also he seems really good and happy on the treatment. Did you do a full tube longer than four weeks? Just wondering if it is safer to go longer than eight weeks.
                                    Last edited by Fharoah; Mar. 20, 2015, 08:31 PM.

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                                    • #58
                                      My mare had surgery when she was 9, and about 3 weeks after she had given birth. She was insured, and the total cost was about 5k (that sounds cheap after reading some of the replies), cost afterwards was about $800. Then the 3 months of total rehab AND having a filly at her side. She did have two mild colics about a month or two after the surgery. Appeared to be just gas colic. Unfortunately, it WAS colic that took her life 5 years later, another 360 twist like the first one.

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                                      • #59
                                        Had two go for surgery. First one heart horse moderate cribber. Put him in field at 7 am at 10:15 was throwing himself on the ground. Five hours later on the table with an epiploic foramen entrapment. He was insured for surgery but funds were limited. I told the vet going into surgery that we would not be doing a resect. Luckily not needed and he recovered from the surgery, although he was never the same again. He became neurological several month after surgery and died a year later. He was older (17) and had a rough time with the surgery.

                                        Fast forward to almost one year ago - get call current horse is colicing. We could not get horse comfy on banamine until vet got there and while not omg I want to die, I was not happy with him. Three hours after initial presentation I made decision to send to hospital. He was borderline and surgeon was going to take a wait and see attitude. As soon as he made the announcement the horse started to shake violently and he changed his mind. Another epiploic foramen entrapment although this horse had no history of cribbing or colic. Again no resection. Recovery was noneventful.

                                        Both horses were insured which was the only reason they could go. Out of pocket in each case was about 600.

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                                        • Original Poster

                                          #60
                                          Originally posted by CAH View Post
                                          Had two go for surgery. First one heart horse moderate cribber. Put him in field at 7 am at 10:15 was throwing himself on the ground. Five hours later on the table with an epiploic foramen entrapment. He was insured for surgery but funds were limited. I told the vet going into surgery that we would not be doing a resect. Luckily not needed and he recovered from the surgery, although he was never the same again. He became neurological several month after surgery and died a year later. He was older (17) and had a rough time with the surgery.

                                          Fast forward to almost one year ago - get call current horse is colicing. We could not get horse comfy on banamine until vet got there and while not omg I want to die, I was not happy with him. Three hours after initial presentation I made decision to send to hospital. He was borderline and surgeon was going to take a wait and see attitude. As soon as he made the announcement the horse started to shake violently and he changed his mind. Another epiploic foramen entrapment although this horse had no history of cribbing or colic. Again no resection. Recovery was noneventful.

                                          Both horses were insured which was the only reason they could go. Out of pocket in each case was about 600.
                                          I m glad you had such great success. I greatly appreciate everyone sharing there experiences.
                                          Last edited by Fharoah; Mar. 20, 2015, 08:32 PM.

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