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Ever Had a Coffin Bone Debrided? Keratoma Removed ? Updates Throughout Thread

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  • Ever Had a Coffin Bone Debrided? Keratoma Removed ? Updates Throughout Thread

    My gut hunch that an abcess was not JUST an abcess was correct. Horse has a dark spot on the edge of his coffin bone above the abcess site. Vet does not think it is part of the abcess, but perhaps a keratoma - which would have caused bruising, which caused the abcess below it - OR that he has a septic coffin bone. How he would have gotten a coffin bone infection is beyond all of us, as to the best of our knowledge he has never had a puncture to that foot, etc. etc but.. there it is. Possibly a septic coffin bone.

    So.. has anyone ever had a coffin bone debrided? Outcome? Keratoma removed? Outcome?

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by EqTrainer; Jan. 9, 2009, 02:25 PM. Reason: Updates
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

  • #2
    Hope this will be helpful
    http://www.liphookequinehosp.co.uk/llkeratoma.htm

    Comment


    • #3
      My gelding had a keratoma removed in 2004.

      On the x-rays is showed up as a black area. His was on the tip of the coffin bone, so part of it was removed as well as the Keratoma.

      Here is the link to his 1 year hoof growth. WARNING GRAPHIC PHOTO'S

      http://s300.photobucket.com/albums/n...hoof%20Growth/

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Thank you both

        The pics of the hoof that had surgery are great. Healed beautifully! What were your horses symptoms, if you don't mind me asking?

        My update is that the surgeon at NCSU does not think it is a keratoma .. he thinks it is either part of the abcess or a septic coffin bone.

        He wants us to treat it very aggressively at home for 5 - 7 days and then reevaluate. If it is not showing signs of recovery by then, he will open the foot and do whatever needs to be done.

        Kudos to my vet, who took the films straight to him and waited for him to see them this afternoon and then called me. I am grateful to have a team who knows not to waste time, but to never be hasty.

        She'll repeat the perfusion for two more days and he'll also be on IV antiobiotics 4x day for seven days.

        I casted his opposite foot today w/ACS to support it, although this evening he was standing comfortably on both feet. Banamine is working better to control his pain than bute. Rinitidine and gastroguard for his tummy. The hole in his foot is packed w/metronidazole.

        I figured I would add these details in case anyone ever does a search on this, it might be helpful information.
        "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
        ---
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

        Comment


        • #5
          My horse started out as being "just off", not lame, then it was repeated abscesses for 18 months before I found a Vet that would x-ray his hoof.

          Good for you having the opposite foot cast. I wish I had done that, as a year after, his opposite hoof split in half, and I had to do 1 year of glue on shoes.

          My horse was pain free immediately after surgery, he refused to take any more bute.

          Comment


          • #6
            My old horse had surgery to remove a Keratoma in August 1995. It looked like someone took an ice cream scoop from just below the coronary band. I started riding him in again December and was competing again by May.

            We used dog collars with terry cloth sewn around them that we dipped in a hoof dressing to continually stimulate the coronary band for speedy growth. X-rays to this day show a little half-moon missing from his coffin bone.

            He competed until he was 22. He's now 25 and still sound.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Today's update:

              As of bedcheck last night, he is sound. I did not give him anymore banamine and he is still perfectly sound at the walk. Affected foot is in a diaper/vetwrap/duct tape bootie so no big support there.

              Vet just finished the second perfusion. She is thrilled that he is sound. She put in a catheter and started IV antiobiotics, I'll be doing this 4x day for the next 5 days. Tomorrow we will haul him to the clinic to save her having to drive 1 1/2 hours to my house and do one more perfusion.

              So far, so good. Gotta just love this horse, he has been 100% a gentleman while she has been working on him.
              "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
              ---
              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

              Comment


              • #8
                My mare just had one removed the day before Thanksgiving. My mare is not normal and does not like to follow how things are supposed to go. She did not have an abscess and her lameness came on suddenly. I turned her out, she bucked once while out (stood the rest of the time), but when I went to bring her in she was three legged lame. She would barely walk on her hind right, and when I'd stop her she'd stand holding it in the air. I gave her some IV banamine, put her away, and by that evening she was walking fine on it. I had my employer come look at her the next day. She blocked to an abaxial which surprised me so we took radiographs. The solar margin shot showed a nice size hole at the tip of her coffin bone. After consulting with a surgeon friend of mine she suggested it could be a keratoma but that her symptoms didn't add up. She was fine at the walk (off at the trot) for the next 10 days, then she all of a sudden went back to barely being able to walk. I got the vet back out and it was determined she needed to get to the hospital for surgery. We had to block her foot to even get her on the trailer to get to to the hospital. She was hopping on three legs at this point. She had surgery the next day and is doing great. She was on bute and injectible antibiotics for a little while, and had a cast on her foot for 3 1/2 weeks. She was walking sound within 2 days of surgery, and completely off bute within 2 weeks. She got the cast off and was put in a bar shoe with a pad and is currently only a 1/5 lame which is awesome considering hopping to get to the trailer. I was lucky in that her keratoma was able to get popped out from the sole of her foot. They made a small hole right at the tip of her frog maybe a little over an inch in diameter and just popped it out. She's currently 6 weeks out from surgery and I'm walk/trotting her under saddle.

                Here's the x-ray of her foot.
                http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...olarmargin.jpg

                Here's the keratoma. It's on the left and the round piece on the right is the piece of sole they removed.
                http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...y/PIC-0143.jpg

                Her purple cast with an E for Emma. She's spent lots of quality time with her favorite surgeon Dr. Dave.
                http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...y/150_5048.jpg

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have a retired horse that had an abcess for a month. We took x-rays & found an infection on the tip of the coffin bone. I had the surgery done to debride the coffin bone, and they found an enormous keratoma. They removed the keratoma....but it extended all the way up to the coronet band. They had to cut away 1/3 of his hoof. (poor thing, this horse has always been a tough cookie). After about 2-3 weeks of aggressive care, we were able to put a shoe with a plate that covered the top of the hoof where it had been completely cutaway. As the hoof grew out, the blacksmith moved the plate down the hoof. He is now fine, sound, shoeless & retired. In total, (vet and blacksmith), it cost me a couple thousand. The surgeon told me if the source of the Keratoma was above the coronet band, then it will grow back- however if he got the original source out, then he will be fine. I have read on the internet that once removed, the horse is fine. My blacksmith told me he deals with this about 1-3 times per year. He said depending on the size and location of the keratoma, the hoof structure can be damaged. Since my horse is retired, he has no stress on his feet. He runs to come in to dinner just fine !

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Todays Update:

                    We took him to the clinic today for his perfusion so my poor vet would not have to drive all this way. It's her on call weekend and she would have done it but I thought she deserved a break

                    Got there and he was just fantastic. He has always been a good baby but today he was stellar. Loaded beautifully, rode great, walked off like he lived there. Liked the room service in the big stall. Never made a peep or got anxious at all. She did the perfusion and then we did his afternoon antiobiotics as he seemed to be a bit colicy this AM after I did them. He was fine. Ran a hemocrit and some other things to be sure he was hydrated and everything was great.

                    Loaded him back up and brought him home. He got to be turned out for a few hours before the storms started, he has been on stall rest for 8 days today. He trotted around (perfectly sound) and then started looking for grass.

                    So.. hopefully the surgeon is right and this is not a keratoma. The abcess site is still draining (!!!) The stories about keratomas are fascinating... I am worried that we will end up in surgery anyway and it will be one.. we won't re-radiograph for two more weeks, meds for 3 more days, so I have quite some time to be in suspense...

                    I do his next set of meds at 1:00 AM, so I can sleep until 7:00. It doesn't sound so bad right now but I am sure at 1:00 I will not be so perky!
                    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                    ---
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jingling for you, and the Dinkster...from cold, snowy, cold SE PA!!

                      He couldn't be in better hands!
                      When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                      www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                      http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My 3-1/2 WEEK old foal suddeny became very lame. I'd seen him loose his wheels zooming round his green field so presumed, wrongly, that he had hurt himself falling. (I had visions of a cracked pelvis). Vet very soon found out he had an abcess on his coffin bone. He did surgery. Two months of stall rest and foot dressing, temperature taking and a/b's and he is fine. Note to self: don't try and diagnose when you don't know a darned thing. Good luck.
                        Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Blue bullet - can you quickly describe how you put that nice neat dressing on the foot. Sure did a neater job than I did with my Tobey! I had to strap on tape and duct tape onto a hind foot on a suckling that was trying to learn to balance on three legs.
                          Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Foxtrot's View Post
                            Blue bullet - can you quickly describe how you put that nice neat dressing on the foot. Sure did a neater job than I did with my Tobey! I had to strap on tape and duct tape onto a hind foot on a suckling that was trying to learn to balance on three legs.
                            Are you refering to the picture with her cast? If so I didn't put that on. The surgeon put the cast on after they completed her surgery while she was still knocked out. Her other foot you can see a little of has an ultimate shoe taped to it with elastikon to help prevent her from getting support limb laminitis. I can't even imagine how much fun it must have been to have to wrap a foal's foot for two months.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Foxtrot's View Post
                              My 3-1/2 WEEK old foal suddeny became very lame. I'd seen him loose his wheels zooming round his green field so presumed, wrongly, that he had hurt himself falling. (I had visions of a cracked pelvis). Vet very soon found out he had an abcess on his coffin bone. He did surgery. Two months of stall rest and foot dressing, temperature taking and a/b's and he is fine. Note to self: don't try and diagnose when you don't know a darned thing. Good luck.
                              Foxtrot - did they give you any idea of how they thought he got it?

                              My vet and the surgeon keep pondering how he got this w/no puncture wound. Pretty sure he never had one.

                              And.. oh dear.. no fun wrapping a baby every day! Dinky is a baby, but a four year old baby with excellent manners, so it's been easy - so far.
                              "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                              ---
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by ASB Stars View Post
                                Jingling for you, and the Dinkster...from cold, snowy, cold SE PA!!

                                He couldn't be in better hands!
                                Thanks he is turned out right now, we are expecting rain - and by the end of the week, HIGH's in the twenties, lows in the 10's...

                                I don't think frozen ground is really what he needs right now (sigh). I think I will be handwalking on the pea gravel A LOT.
                                "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                                ---
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Yes, I've had two horses who had coffin bone debridement (surgically). Horse #1 had was due to an old, very deep abscess that tracked up and infected the tip of the coffin bone. In fact it was the only abscess he ever had in the 24 years I owned him -- but it was a doozy.

                                  Horse #2, somehow cracked her sole and debris had worked its way up to the coffin bone.

                                  Horse #1 was back in work (with a hospital plate) in the indoor within a few weeks of surgery. Horse #2 was put in a foot cast, then shod with a full pad and recovered without incident as well.
                                  www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                                  "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                                  Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    My TB filly had her coffin bone debrided in Feb 07. She had punctured her foot in the pasture and gotten the tip of her coffin bone. She spented 6 weeks on layup (at a facility...cleanliness was important and our barn just isn't set up to keep a bouncy yearling TB on stallrest....not to mention the luxury of having experienced barn help to clean and wrap...this was a back foot). After 4-5 weeks, we put a medicine plate on and she kept that on when she came home. She did go out on pasture at that point. We tried a Davis boot over the medicine plate, but it seems to get more dirt inside and hold it there. So we went back to cotton, elastikon, vet wrap and duct tape OVER the medicine plate. Then after about 2 months, just the medicine plate. Filly was sound when we brought her home and remained sound.

                                    We were diligent about her care. That is my best advice. Don't cut any corners.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I once took a yearling to the NCSU vet school for a curette and debride on his R/F coffin bone. It was not because of a Keratoma but the condition was equally serious. I don't know if your vet was Dr. Schramme but he did a great job on my horse. He is now sound but it took a long time for the limping to stop.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
                                        Foxtrot - did they give you any idea of how they thought he got it?

                                        My vet and the surgeon keep pondering how he got this w/no puncture wound. Pretty sure he never had one.

                                        And.. oh dear.. no fun wrapping a baby every day! Dinky is a baby, but a four year old baby with excellent manners, so it's been easy - so far.
                                        You'd be amazed at the weird things they manage to do. My mare (same one with the keratoma) had a septic knee with no wound, no puncture, no nothing. Her leg swelled making us think a cellulitis, after a few days of no change we decided to try to drain her knee to give her some relief from the swelling. We got some nasty yellow, chunky looking joint fluid back. Sent it in and it came back septic. The surgeon who did arthroscopic surgery on her knee was baffled since she didn't see anything at all on her knee.

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