• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

experience with stifle arthritis?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • experience with stifle arthritis?

    I have a 14yr old appendix gelding who has evented through training level. I have a feeling that he has stifle arthritis on his right hind because he doesnt step all the way through like he does with his left hind. and sometimes he doesnt like the left side and left lead because the first step in the left lead is with that right hind... he is currently getting cosequin to help but does anyone have experience with stifle injections? I know that i will have to get a vet out and x-rays possibly to make it a 100% diagnosis.

  • #2
    stifle arthritis

    Since the stifle is not a true joint, such as a ball and socket, arthritis as we understand it, does not normally occur. The kind of movement problems you are seeing is more related to leaky gut syndrome, especially when it affects the right hind. That is where the cecum is, with the thinnest walls of the GI tract and most susceptible area for leaky gut to begin. This problems is often incorrectly Dx'd as EPM, although leaky gut often precludes true EPM infections.

    I have been doing extensive research on this syndrome for the past 20 yrs. You can read more about this environmentally induced illness on my web site
    vitaroyal.com.

    If you would like more help with your horse, just fill out the case history and send to me and I will call you for a chat. I do not charge for consults.

    Linsey McLean
    Biochemist
    Last edited by biochemist; Jan. 3, 2009, 10:26 PM. Reason: spelling errors

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by biochemist View Post
      Since the stifle is not a true joint, such as a ball and socket, arthritis as we understand it, does not normally occur. The kind of movement problems you are seeing is more related to leaky gut syndrome, especially when it affects the right hind. That is where the cecum is, with the thinnest walls of the GI tract and most susceptible area for leaky gut to begin. This problems is often incorrectly Dx'd as EPM, although leaky gut often precludes true EPM infections.

      What?! Leaky gut syndrome for a horse who is short strided on the right hind? I'm sorry, but what a crock. The stifle IS a joint, and arthritis, OCD, and other joint issues are fairly common.

      To the OP, I responded on your other thread in eventing, but wanted to also say to make sure you have a good diagnostic vet to figure out exactly what part of the RH is bothering your horse. Problems with the right hock or SI joint could also cause your symptoms.
      http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Music was diagnosed with stifle arhritis a couple of years ago, and injected. It made a big difference. She is probably due for it again.

        My vet did not need to do Xrays, he was able to diagnose it by watching her move, and by manual manipulation.
        Janet

        chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lstevenson View Post
          What?! Leaky gut syndrome for a horse who is short strided on the right hind? I'm sorry, but what a crock. The stifle IS a joint, and arthritis, OCD, and other joint issues are fairly common.

          To the OP, I responded on your other thread in eventing, but wanted to also say to make sure you have a good diagnostic vet to figure out exactly what part of the RH is bothering your horse. Problems with the right hock or SI joint could also cause your symptoms.
          Oh come on now, you had to know it was either this or the horse was IR. To the OP, get the vet out, it could be the stifle or something else entirely. Depending on what it is exactly, your treatment possibilities are endless. Once you have a diagnosis that you agree with, restart your thread and I'm guessing we can be more helpful then. Best wishes for you and your horse.

          Comment


          • #6
            There are may different things that may cause the horse to shorten its stride on one hind leg - and the starting point should always be the hoof unless there is compelling reason to locate the problem elsewhere.

            It is possible that a change in the stride is being caused by gut disorders but frankly I'd be wanting to eliminate some common muscular - skeletal or hoof related issues.

            Just for information : there are lots of different types of joints in the horse aside from ball and socket type joints.

            All joints are affected by the strength of the muscles that surround it - the stifle joint in particular. It is not a typical condylar joint as it both hinges and glides like a plane joint - and its function (and longterm health) is affected if either of these types of movement is inhibited. If the meniscal cartilage that surrounds the femoral articular surfaces is unable to provide adequate lubrication to the joint - the bony surfaces may touch -> arthrosis.

            There are also important cruciate ligaments inside the joint which ensure the femur is not displaced too far forward or backward of the tibia - if the muscles around the stifle are weak - these ligaments can be strained and the joint is then not able to be kept taut.

            Unless you can pinpoint the originating problem to the stifle joint (remembering that hock and stifle actions are linked so one may affect the other) my advice would be to start with the feet - eliminate imbalances, pain there first.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Janet View Post
              Music was diagnosed with stifle arhritis a couple of years ago, and injected. It made a big difference. She is probably due for it again.

              .

              Just out of curiousity, how much did this cost you? If you don't mind sharing...

              My horse has a slight stiffness in his left stifle. My massage/chiro guy was the one to actually notice it so far, but once he pointed it out I can see it. It is almost like a very slight hitch, doesn't affect his gait or stride though. I believe this is because my horse was kicked in that same area of the stifle a few years back.

              We do a ton of hillwork . He is also turned out on a hill. He is now 17 and I believe this has helped keep the muscles surrounding the area strong.

              That said, this winter I have noticed he has more difficulty cantering to the left, especially in the corners of a smaller ring. He doesn't want to use that side as much. I will probably have the vet out to assess the issue further and see if injections are neccessary.

              Alot of stifle issues CAN be improved by hillwork and cavalletti. Oftentimes strengthening the muscles around the stifle can help dramatically.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by George Myers View Post
                There are may different things that may cause the horse to shorten its stride on one hind leg - and the starting point should always be the hoof unless there is compelling reason to locate the problem elsewhere.

                It is possible that a change in the stride is being caused by gut disorders but frankly I'd be wanting to eliminate some common muscular - skeletal or hoof related issues.

                Just for information : there are lots of different types of joints in the horse aside from ball and socket type joints.

                All joints are affected by the strength of the muscles that surround it - the stifle joint in particular. It is not a typical condylar joint as it both hinges and glides like a plane joint - and its function (and longterm health) is affected if either of these types of movement is inhibited. If the meniscal cartilage that surrounds the femoral articular surfaces is unable to provide adequate lubrication to the joint - the bony surfaces may touch -> arthrosis.

                There are also important cruciate ligaments inside the joint which ensure the femur is not displaced too far forward or backward of the tibia - if the muscles around the stifle are weak - these ligaments can be strained and the joint is then not able to be kept taut.

                Unless you can pinpoint the originating problem to the stifle joint (remembering that hock and stifle actions are linked so one may affect the other) my advice would be to start with the feet - eliminate imbalances, pain there first.

                When he was lame about a month ago we were doing flexion tests and he would not even let us flex the right hind and then about 5 days ago i flexed it again to look at it and see how he felt about us flexing it and he still did not like it. Then he got a bowen treatment(its basically massage therapy) and felt much better especially on that left lead. Im just still concerned because i dont want him to be uncompfortable. So im pretty positive it is the stifle due to the flexion tests.


                oh and i can still ride him, some days he feels better than others.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LookinSouth View Post
                  Just out of curiousity, how much did this cost you? If you don't mind sharing...
                  I honestly don't remember, but probably around $200 including diagnosis- maybe $300. She was 20 at the time, and no longer had major medical, so it was "out of pocket" for me, and I don't remember it being a big financial decsion.
                  Janet

                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    With regard to flexion tests, the stifle and hock joints on the horse are directly interconnected. So when you flex the hock you also flex the stifle, and vice versa. But direct palpation of the stifle got a reaction in Music, as well as watching her move.
                    Janet

                    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yep. Gus has MAJOR stifle issues. He routinely got his left stifle injected for the last 3 years or so, about every 6-8 months. Legend worked wonders (at the time) to prolong the time between injections.

                      Last spring, Gus injured his right stifle, pretty bad. Torn CCL. Lovely. Still lame, months later, after rest and rehab. We're reinjecting both stifles next week and will start a strict rehab again, to see if we succeed this time. We'll see.

                      Cost, roughly $200 for one side, one injection, by my rDVM. The specialist (whom I love, but it's expensive to trailer to because I don't own a trailer) costs ~ $400 for three injections (one in each joint "pocket"). So, probably around $800 to do all six areas (both sides).

                      So, should be around $350-400 to have the "major" place done on both stifles next week, I'm guess. Still a LOT of money!

                      ETA: Good rehab helped a ton before we had our lastest setback... hills and cavalletti really worked too.
                      Proud owner of Gus & Gringo.
                      See G2's blog
                      Photos

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by myhorsecouldeatyours View Post
                        When he was lame about a month ago we were doing flexion tests and he would not even let us flex the right hind and then about 5 days ago i flexed it again to look at it and see how he felt about us flexing it and he still did not like it. Then he got a bowen treatment(its basically massage therapy) and felt much better especially on that left lead. Im just still concerned because i dont want him to be uncompfortable. So im pretty positive it is the stifle due to the flexion tests.
                        Originally posted by Janet View Post
                        With regard to flexion tests, the stifle and hock joints on the horse are directly interconnected. So when you flex the hock you also flex the stifle, and vice versa. But direct palpation of the stifle got a reaction in Music, as well as watching her move.


                        What Janet said. There is no way to flex one without the other. So you need either a very experienced lameness vet who can tell by palpation and evaluating the way the horse moves, or you need to do nerve blocks starting at the foot and working your way up until the problem are becomes apparant.
                        http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, concerning biochemist's post: if you ask the Succeed people, they feel that the right dorsal section of the GI tract can be irritated and it can make itself known through a poor way of going -- stiffness, not tracking up as well in the right hind. RDC can come with ulcers -- right dorsal colitis. [I think it was the Succeed product person who told me this...] Are you seeing any other signs of ulcers?

                          Also, not to make things worse, but would what you're seeing be, possibly, an SI problem?

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X