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Daily requirement for Lysine and Vitamin E?

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  • Daily requirement for Lysine and Vitamin E?

    I've been searching the threads for a long while now and can't really find what I need.

    Does anyone know off the top of their head, the daily amount of Lysine and Vitamin E a horse needs? Just maintenance, no work.

  • #2
    According to the book I just got "Feeding Your Horse For Life" Here is what it says about Lysine and Vit E

    Lysine: Enhances growth and nitrogen balance. Promotes bone growth in foals, and stimulates gastric juices. This particular amino acid is often called the "first limiting" amino-acid - meaning that if your hourse doesn't get enought of it, he won't be able to use any of the other's either. Horse feeds shoujld contain a minimum of 0.65 percent lysine (dry matter).

    Because Lysine and methionine are so important they are frequently added to horse feed.

    It is one of the 22 amino acids needed by horses, and is one of the essential ones.

    Vitamin E does not have an established minimum at this time, but the National Research Council recommends 50 IU/kg and 100 IU/kg for performance horses and pregnant or lactating mares. This level however, may be much too low. Some experts recommend a much, much higher level for equine atheletes - up to 2000 IU of vit E per pound. It is not possible to overdoes Vit E, but if you have selenium in the supplement, it could be an issue. So, some conservative nutritionists recommend that horses receive no more than 1000 IU/kg in the diet.

    Hope this helps.
    There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      That helps tremendously (and I REALLY need to get a nutrition book!!) Thank you so much

      Comment


      • #4
        The amount of lysine depends on the horse's age, weight, and amount of work. The average 1100lb horse in light-moderate work needs about 33gm
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Yeah, I figured that much Actually, when I went looking on Smartpak's site it gave more info. None of my horses are 1100 lbs. One is a bit over a thousand, everyone else is 900 and lower. Nobody is ridden. Idle through the winter. Light training in the spring on a few.

          Comment


          • #6
            I give my horse the Pure Lysine by Vitaflex that I get thru Smartpak and it it says 4 scoops, but I can't rmember how much that comes out to. I know I did a custom amount as I wanted more than the maintenance dose they have, that was after reading the info on the importance of it. If you go to their web site and go to the Pure Lysine you can read about the importance of it. Just a sidenote, my trainer after reading an article about it in the November issue of "the horse journal" put her horses on it and found the soreness that her young horse was having in his back disappeared in the first week and she noticed a change in the muscle development as well. Pretty amazing. I have my guy on Accel Lifetime so I am also supplementing him with vitamin E and Se. He gets no grain so this is why I supplement him.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by FillyMe View Post
              I give my horse the Pure Lysine by Vitaflex that I get thru Smartpak and it it says 4 scoops, but I can't rmember how much that comes out to. I know I did a custom amount as I wanted more than the maintenance dose they have, that was after reading the info on the importance of it. If you go to their web site and go to the Pure Lysine you can read about the importance of it. Just a sidenote, my trainer after reading an article about it in the November issue of "the horse journal" put her horses on it and found the soreness that her young horse was having in his back disappeared in the first week and she noticed a change in the muscle development as well. Pretty amazing. I have my guy on Accel Lifetime so I am also supplementing him with vitamin E and Se. He gets no grain so this is why I supplement him.
              All good stuff to know! I have my gang on Beet Pulp and a Vitamin/Mineral supplement but it doesn't have a whole lot of Lysine in it. I think it has 325 mg. if I recall correctly. I just switched them to this feeding program after being on an RB for a while. The horses are on mostly pasture but right now it's slim pickings and they are on grass hay. I saw that Lysine supp on Smartpak (and their right up on it) and it's cheap enough to try. I wouldn't give them a ton since they aren't in work right now, but I figure it might not hurt. Thank you for the info!

              Comment


              • #8
                too much se?

                What are the effects of too much se, i saw it just above? Mine is on Vit E/se supplement and i feed twice the recommended amount b/c my horse gets oats and a protein supplement,so this vit e/se is his only source, and since i started his muscles tone has improved 100%. Just wanting to see what the excess was?
                Honey Badger don't give a s*#^!

                "..a three-day event is not a test of speed and endurance, it is a test of character" ~JW

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Painted Hill View Post
                  What are the effects of too much se,
                  Interestingly enough, many of the same symptoms as too little - mane/tail falling out, hooves cracking at the coronary band, to name a few. Both can also cause muscle issues.

                  i saw it just above? Mine is on Vit E/se supplement and i feed twice the recommended amount b/c my horse gets oats and a protein supplement,so this vit e/se is his only source, and since i started his muscles tone has improved 100%. Just wanting to see what the excess was?
                  The e/se isn't his only source. Hay and grass have both. But, if you're in an area that is se-deficient, not a lot. So, if you have seen muscle improvement since starting, you can be pretty sure he was deficient before. Since you are supp'ing, it would be a good time to draw blood to check his level. Then you'll have some baseline for later if you think you might need to add more.
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    thanks for the info. i know our area is deficient in grass/hay. The muscle tone he has developed since adding vit e/se and protein supp has been unbelievable. After over a year of training and muscle building i could still see his spine over his croup area, now he has quite a nice topline...no hair falling out or cracked hooves so I am probably at a good level, but I think drawing his levels would satisfy me as this is the first time he has not been on a complete feed, just oats with different supplements. I was thinking of adding the lysine too....
                    Honey Badger don't give a s*#^!

                    "..a three-day event is not a test of speed and endurance, it is a test of character" ~JW

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      From "Feeding Your Horse For Life":

                      "Selenium has the lowest toxicity leveo of any mineral critical in equine nutrition, and selenium tocixity is much more common than deficiency. . . . The minimu lethal dose of selenium is about 150 to 200 mg/kg (70 to 90 mg/lb) in the diet. This may sound like a lot, but selenium is actually quite a bit more toxic to horse than to cattle or pigs. In fact, selenium tocixyt to equines has occured with dietary selenium levels of only 5 to 40 mg/kg (2 to 8 mg/lb)."

                      There are no limits/effects to overdosing Vit E alone, but the book did say that: "very large doses of vitamin E may induce blood coagulation problems by interfering with vitamin K. It could theoretically interfere with the absorbtion of some other fat-soluble vitamins. For this reason some conservative equine nutritionist recomment that horses receive no more than 1000IU/kg in the diet."

                      It didn't say anything about too much lysine.
                      There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am doing 64mg/lb/day. comes as 32mg/lb scoop. so 2 scoops/day
                        Honey Badger don't give a s*#^!

                        "..a three-day event is not a test of speed and endurance, it is a test of character" ~JW

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          or maybe i am figuring that wrong. I am looking at the product info on line and if its says it provides 32g se per pound, i suppose that would be per the scoop provided? i have been giving him the same dose for 3 or 4 months so i assume if he was getting too much i would know it by now, or does it work like a build up over time?
                          Honey Badger don't give a s*#^!

                          "..a three-day event is not a test of speed and endurance, it is a test of character" ~JW

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MunchkinsMom View Post
                            From "Feeding Your Horse For Life":

                            "The minimu lethal dose of selenium is about 150 to 200 mg/kg (70 to 90 mg/lb) "

                            unless the kg/lb are backwards, because 1kg=2.2lbs, i think it would be more like 300-400mg/lb as an overdose with the conversion. hmmm if that is right then he is safe, but way low safe i guess. i hate these things
                            Honey Badger don't give a s*#^!

                            "..a three-day event is not a test of speed and endurance, it is a test of character" ~JW

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Painted Hill View Post
                              or maybe i am figuring that wrong. I am looking at the product info on line and if its says it provides 32g se per pound, i suppose that would be per the scoop provided?
                              32 GRAMS per pound? I doubt that. 1oz of that would be 2gm/ounce. Supplementation of that had BETTER be in units of milligrams

                              i have been giving him the same dose for 3 or 4 months so i assume if he was getting too much i would know it by now, or does it work like a build up over time?
                              If you're od'ing in small amounts, it can take a while to build up. If a horse eats a se-hoarding plant, toxicity can show up very very quickly. Some horses do well on a rotation of se supplementation, some need doses every day.

                              The generally safe amount is .3ppm of the *entire* diet.
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Effects of Selenium Toxicity:
                                • Stiffness
                                • Patchy Sweating
                                • Head Pressing
                                • Anemia
                                • Enlargement of liver, heart and kidney
                                • Abnormal hoof growth or hoof sloughing
                                • Dark liquid stools
                                • Blind staggers (alkali disease)
                                • Decreased appetite and listlessness
                                • Dyspnea (no idea what this is?)
                                • Rought coat and hair loss from mane and tail
                                Here's some more information from the internet:

                                http://www.horsetech.com/selenium.htm

                                http://www.myequinenetwork.com/LinkC...bid=87&mid=534

                                The other thing that you have to factor in is the amount of selenium in your hay, pasture, etc, you can't think that the supplement is the only source.
                                There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  yea, definately whoops, 32mg/lb! ha i would probably have a dead horse on my hands at 32g!! I didn't mean the supplement was the only source, we are just very deficient in this area in the grass and hay and i do not feed him a complete feed. That was confusing...sorry. This is the first time i have not fed a complete feed and am supplementing the vitamins but was advised to add vit e/sel as we are deficient in the area and given his poor muscle tone at the time. Thanks for posting the symptoms of overdose! I think the best route would be to check his levels, but if i kept him on the supplement if i should do that routinely? Probably doing 32mg/lb as it comes would be efficient now as maintenance now that he is no longer deficient. im new to this board...good advice to be found!
                                  Honey Badger don't give a s*#^!

                                  "..a three-day event is not a test of speed and endurance, it is a test of character" ~JW

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I saw after the fact that you're in SC -yes, deficient. Now would be a good time to check his level, since he's been supp'd for 3+ months. One of the very first things you'd see from a chronic overdose is cracking at the coronet band, so likely you're just fine. You could check again in 3-6 months, and if things are still fine, maybe once a year or so.

                                    If it makes you feel better, between the 4gm of Se specifically (e/se product) and the 1-ish gm in the vit/min supp, I was giving 5mg/day to my WB gelding and he was barely in the middle range.
                                    ______________________________
                                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      yea SC crap soil..... Yea i don't have any of those symptoms. My guy is a little over 1200lbs so would likely need a little more than recommended on label as those mostly go for 1000-1100lbs. This diet thing is tricky when you do it the natural way!
                                      Honey Badger don't give a s*#^!

                                      "..a three-day event is not a test of speed and endurance, it is a test of character" ~JW

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        So i definately checked the container of my vit e/sel and each scoop is an ounce, which contains 2mg/ounce!!! so he is getting 4 mg/day! think im safe thanks guys
                                        Honey Badger don't give a s*#^!

                                        "..a three-day event is not a test of speed and endurance, it is a test of character" ~JW

                                        Comment

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