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The Dumors are innocent! Ulcer cause found, and it's unbelievable (pg2)

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  • #21
    I agree with Seal Harbor... I rarely give treats (it's been at least 2 months since I even opened the jar I store them in.)

    Alfalfa cubes are just as easy as the apple wafers... BUT... the apple wafers, with the strong aroma, work better at luring the horse. Same as crinkling the wrapper on peppermints. LOL...

    I know trainers that use large elbow macaroni. Other gals use cereal... particularly the stale kind. But I think the shredded wheat ones are easy to handle (the small ones with frosting).

    My horse, who I am sure has ulcers and is a cribber, reacts immediately to sweet things - carrots, apples, wafers, dumor treats, etc. they drive him to his cribbing post. Whereas the other 2 horses become treat whores.

    Pats, forehead rubs, and wither scritches work just as well. Treats for training / rewards for good behavior. If I give them too frequently, they are no longer a reward.

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    • #22
      One word..... TUMS!

      (and my ulcer prone girl would like to add that she likes the minty flavours not the fruity kinds)
      Member of the *OMG I loff my mare!* clique.

      Comment


      • #23
        Has anyone shared this news with War Admiral? She swears by Dumors for Avery. This might lead to some serious backsliding...
        When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
        www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
        http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

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        • #24
          Originally posted by gf View Post
          One word..... TUMS!

          (and my ulcer prone girl would like to add that she likes the minty flavours not the fruity kinds)
          Hey, thanks for that reminder!!! I bet minty would be better too.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by ASB Stars View Post
            Has anyone shared this news with War Admiral? She swears by Dumors for Avery. This might lead to some serious backsliding...
            Well, been following the thread, and the only thing that gives me pause is that I know TSC has recently changed manufacturers for what once was the Dumor Nutrisource one which HRH Avery prefers. I see they haven't even updated their website yet - but these come in a different bag now (black with orange) and I haven't bought any yet to compare the ingredients. I'm planning to buy the small plastic container of the new kind first and see what he thinks of them.

            I've fed Dumor Nutrisource treats ever since Pony4Me turned me on to them (2004??) and have never noticed any tendency to exacerbate HRH's ulcers. The only times his tummy starts hurting are (a) if he's stressed, (b) if there isn't enough grass to eat, or (c) if he's allergic to something *else* I'm feeding, such as a new wormer (this past weekend) or a supp with oral HA in it.

            Opinionated old So-and-so that he is, when HRH Avery's tummy hurts, he makes SURE his staff are all too well aware of it!
            "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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            • #26
              Originally posted by gf View Post
              One word..... TUMS!

              (and my ulcer prone girl would like to add that she likes the minty flavours not the fruity kinds)
              My guy won't even try them
              Y'all ain't right!

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by BeastieSlave View Post
                My guy won't even try them
                LOL, Beastie, you have to try ALL the different flavors. Trust me on this. Unlike GF's horse, HRH Avery will not TOUCH the peppermint ones, LOATHES the tropical fruit ones, and will ONLY eat the traditional fruit-flavored ones. He also wears the "Accept no substitutes" sign - generics won't do. Has to be REAL Tums!
                "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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                • #28
                  tums

                  I must the lab of the equine world- mine loves all kinds of tums- even the costco kind which are cheap- he would eat the whole bottle in one sitting- he also loves his aloe vera jucie and seems to like his zantax- aka rantidine-

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    Well y'all, it looks like the Dumors weren't the culprit after all; my boy became ulcery again, and needed Gastrogard again, even without Dumors on the menu. Shortly thereafter I came upon what I believe to be the true cause, totally by accident...and damn it's a doozy.

                    I stopped by the barn early one morning last week. I almost never go in the am because I have a long commute and an early start to work, but the weather had changed and I wanted to switch blankets so my guy didn't roast. When I arrived, he was already out. Out of curiosity, I looked in his feed tub to see if he'd finished breakfast. What did I find? A handful of leftover SWEET FEED.

                    My horse has been on TC Low Starch since last year. It's written on the feed chart in the feed room, AND on his stall, AND on the feed bin. I found the guy who does am feedings and asked, "What grain does my horse get?" His answer: "Senior feed and something else." I said no, he's supposed to get Low Starch. He said the BO told him to feed the other stuff.

                    Needless to say, I was livid and as a result, nearly rear-ended someone on the highway. I managed to calm down, get through the workday, and remain calm for a discussion with the BO that evening. She told me she had NOT told her worker to feed anything other than Low Starch, but that she would straighten him out. I can only assume she did, because the Low Starch bin is now emptying faster...AND MY HORSE HAS NOT HAD ONE ULCER FLARE SINCE.

                    I also questioned the girls who feed in the afternoon, and all confirmed that they feed the Low Starch per the feed chart. So my horse was getting a Senior/sweet feed combo in the morning, and Low Starch at night, for God only knows how long. No WONDER his stomach was screwed up; carb overload in the am, sugar crash in the pm.

                    It makes me ill to think he's been going through this, probably for months, and I didn't even know. I trusted the morning feed guy. I believed he could read English, as I'd leave occasional notes on the stall and all were followed. So it stood to reason that he could read the feed chart. Why he didn't follow it, I have no idea.

                    It also makes me ill to think I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars over the past 10 months treating my horse's ulcers, money I didn't really have, and making insurance claims to help cover the cost...all because the barn worker didn't bother to read the feed chart, and because the BO didn't supervise him closely enough to pick up the error. The vengeful part of me wants to submit a bill for all the Gastrogard I've bought and all the related vet calls I've made.

                    I have, over the past year or so, had plenty of reason to leave this barn, but I hung in because the owner is a good friend of mine and I always gave her the benefit of the doubt and a chance to fix things. This, however, is feeling like the last straw. All my trust is gone. It's going to be hard but I need to take my horse elsewhere, for his heath and my sanity.

                    I still can't believe this happened. My poor horse...

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Ugh!!! How awful. Welcome to my life as a boarder last year, except that instead of feeding the WRONG thing, they were saving themselves a buck by not feeding hay unless I was around to supervise.... at all. Literally, I think she was getting 1 flake a day, and probably not even on the day I wasn't there (which thankfully were rare).

                      It's time to pack up and go, for everybody's sake. Get him somewhere that is trustworthy, even if this person is your friend. It's better to just get out!
                      Eventing-A-Gogo: Adventures of a Barefoot Event Horse and her Human
                      The Reeling: An Unexpected Mareventure

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Ugh SBT, that's terrible!! But I'm so glad you figured it out. Good for you for being such a dedicated mum! Wow, I am so glad my horses live at home. It is downright scary to depend on other people to take care of such expensive, sensitive animals. I can't even stand leaving my dogs overnight at a boarding place. I used to pay mucho $$$$ to have a dog sitter come TO MY HOUSE to do dog care.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Oh my goodness. That is horrible. I remember things like that happening when I boarded before FF.. ugh.

                          Well, now you know. When he says his tummy hurts, something might be up
                          "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                          ---
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            First, I'm so glad it wasn't the Dumors! My guys love them, and they're so easy for me to get (TS right by work). But ugh, SBT, I'm so sorry for what it turned out to be. Makes me so glad my guys are home now -- I remember those days, having to post HUGE signs in both english and spanish (and russian!) so that the kids or foreign speaking workers would actually pay attention to my horses feeding requirements rather than just throwing them a scoop of whatever was easiest. I feel for you. Hope the conversation with the BO went ok.
                            "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." - Confucious
                            <>< I.I.

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                            • #34
                              Is everything else there ok? If so, consider what could have gone wrong that wasn't intentional. Is it possible that the BO told the morning feed guy to give a different horse the senior/sweet feed mix in the a.m. but he misunderstood and since she isn't overseeing his activities she never noticed him making the mistake? I would be surprised if she would have done it on purpose to save a buck. Senior feed is not cheap so I wouldn't think that feeding him senior feed with sweet feed really would have saved her any substantial money.

                              If everything else is good then approach it calmly and see if you can get to the bottom of it. At least you know how it is at this barn. If you go to a new one how many "growing pains" will you experience or disagreements in horse care might you come across with an entirely new BO and barn staff? But if there are multiple problems here that you haven't been able to resolve then I would certainly leave.

                              When you have workers that do not speak English as a second language you have to be extra careful to make sure they understand. In addition to speaking with them I suggest using pictures or drawings taped to your horse's stall or have someone translate your message in Spanish (assuming it is spanish that is his primary language.)

                              There are probably some grammatical errors here but this should get the message across in a way to which he can relate. You could print out your messages like this and give them to him or leave it posted to your horse's stall.

                              Por favor, nunca da Ud. alimento dulce a mi caballo. El debe comer Triple Crown Low Starch y no otra alimento excepto el heno. Si le come otro tipos de alimento el va a tener más ulceras en el estómago. Se duelen mucho las ulceras y el medication cuesta mucho dinero. Yo pagué mucho dinero durante el año pasado porque el tiene ulceras. Mucho gracias para su ayuda.

                              Translated to mean: Please, never feed sweet feed to my horse. He should eat Triple Crown Low Starch and no other feeds except hay. If he eats other types of feed he is going to have more ulcers in his stomach. Ulceras are very painful and the medication is very expensive. I paid a lot of money during the last year because he has ulcers. Thank you very much for your help.
                              Altamont Sport Horses
                              Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
                              Home of stallions: Ambrosius af Asgard "Atlantis" & Hollywood Hot Spot
                              Birmingham, AL

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by SBT View Post
                                I stopped by the barn early one morning last week. I almost never go in the am because I have a long commute and an early start to work, but the weather had changed and I wanted to switch blankets so my guy didn't roast. When I arrived, he was already out. Out of curiosity, I looked in his feed tub to see if he'd finished breakfast. What did I find? A handful of leftover SWEET FEED.

                                It makes me ill to think he's been going through this, probably for months, and I didn't even know. I trusted the morning feed guy. I believed he could read English, as I'd leave occasional notes on the stall and all were followed. So it stood to reason that he could read the feed chart. Why he didn't follow it, I have no idea.

                                It also makes me ill to think I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars over the past 10 months treating my horse's ulcers, money I didn't really have, and making insurance claims to help cover the cost...all because the barn worker didn't bother to read the feed chart, and because the BO didn't supervise him closely enough to pick up the error. The vengeful part of me wants to submit a bill for all the Gastrogard I've bought and all the related vet calls I've made.

                                I have, over the past year or so, had plenty of reason to leave this barn, but I hung in because the owner is a good friend of mine and I always gave her the benefit of the doubt and a chance to fix things. This, however, is feeling like the last straw. All my trust is gone. It's going to be hard but I need to take my horse elsewhere, for his heath and my sanity.

                                I still can't believe this happened. My poor horse...
                                Unfortunately this sounds like a typical boarding situation...

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Actually, the conversation I did have with the BO was a good one. I was calm and non-accusatory, just told her what happened. She seemed genuinely surprised, and I know her well enough (over 11 years as a good friend, fewer as a boarder) to tell when she's trying to dance around something. Her overall response was along the lines of "WTF?" Followed by saying she would fix it, and I'm pretty sure she did.

                                  Also, there are NOT a lot of good barns in this area. The ones that ARE good are in the $1,000/month range, generally with nickle-and-dime add-ons and the requirement of lessons/training rides. I know one barn whose base board is $750, but everyone winds up paying $1400 or so because the barn requires full care and full training. NOT in my price range!

                                  I have researched other barns, and for $600 a month I can get A. an indoor with rock-hard footing, and completely overgrown pastures my horse would disappear in (literally, the weeds were THAT high), B. a stall with a dusting of shavings and hay kept under lock and key, or C. a tiny, dark, straw-only stall in a barn with one small, crowded indoor and trainers who drug horses without owners' permission. For $615 I can get a nice indoor, but a tiny stall and 30 mins max of turnout per day. For $650 I can get a dark, dusty indoor plus a certified psycho barn owner who kicks people out for looking at her the wrong way. For $700 I can get a gorgeous indoor, a nice stall and plenty of turnout, but only 1 flake of hay per feeding. Almost all the horses are borderline emaciated, and the greenhorn owners cater to greenhorn boarders who don't know any better.

                                  THIS is what I'm up against. As imperfect as my current barn may be (and yes, there have been other problems besides the feed snafu), it often looks like the least of all evils. I'm really torn as to what I should do. There are a few more barns I have yet to investigate, so I'll start with that...

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    SBT I am on this side of the Hudson, have you looked over here or is it too far?
                                    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                                    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      Which side? Can you PM me your thoughts on Surreywood (you said your horse is there now and you're happy?) and whether or not they have an open stall? It's on my list of possibilities...

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by SBT View Post
                                        Actually, the conversation I did have with the BO was a good one. I was calm and non-accusatory, just told her what happened. She seemed genuinely surprised, and I know her well enough (over 11 years as a good friend, fewer as a boarder) to tell when she's trying to dance around something. Her overall response was along the lines of "WTF?" Followed by saying she would fix it, and I'm pretty sure she did.

                                        Also, there are NOT a lot of good barns in this area. The ones that ARE good are in the $1,000/month range, generally with nickle-and-dime add-ons and the requirement of lessons/training rides. I know one barn whose base board is $750, but everyone winds up paying $1400 or so because the barn requires full care and full training. NOT in my price range!

                                        I have researched other barns, and for $600 a month I can get A. an indoor with rock-hard footing, and completely overgrown pastures my horse would disappear in (literally, the weeds were THAT high), B. a stall with a dusting of shavings and hay kept under lock and key, or C. a tiny, dark, straw-only stall in a barn with one small, crowded indoor and trainers who drug horses without owners' permission. For $615 I can get a nice indoor, but a tiny stall and 30 mins max of turnout per day. For $650 I can get a dark, dusty indoor plus a certified psycho barn owner who kicks people out for looking at her the wrong way. For $700 I can get a gorgeous indoor, a nice stall and plenty of turnout, but only 1 flake of hay per feeding. Almost all the horses are borderline emaciated, and the greenhorn owners cater to greenhorn boarders who don't know any better.

                                        THIS is what I'm up against. As imperfect as my current barn may be (and yes, there have been other problems besides the feed snafu), it often looks like the least of all evils. I'm really torn as to what I should do. There are a few more barns I have yet to investigate, so I'll start with that...
                                        Personally, I would stay. You've identified the problem, the BO seems committed to resolving it, and the alternatives don't seem very attractive. But I would talk further with the BO (and perhaps you have) and share what you've shared here, that this situation has cost you thousands of dollars that you don't have, and caused your horse to suffer needlessly. We assume she's reasonable and will work hard to rectify the situation.

                                        You may also choose to bag up (or otherwise prepare) your horse's grain rations so they can be easily fed by anyone. It will give you peace of mind.

                                        good luck.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          WOW! Yeah I'd be pissed, but if you got a good feeling from talking to the BO about it, it's hopefully not going to happen again. The alternatives to boarding situation sound worse.. At least you found out, instead of this going on even longer.... yikes!

                                          I have a similar issue- I told my BO to only feed a SMALL handful of her pelleted feed to my horse when everyone else comes in. I come once a day and feed his mush/supps. She does not believe me that concentrates upset his stomach and increased the amount w/out asking me...sure enough, now he has diarrea again...GRRR. At least my situation is temporary.

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