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Possible causes of cow pattie manure?

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  • Possible causes of cow pattie manure?

    Adopted a 4 year old OTTB 4 weeks ago today! Since he stepped off the trailer he's had cow patties as manure-no ball form what so ever and a NASTY evacuate the barn smell to it. Negative fecal, no stomach ulcers as per scoping, 7 days of bio-sponge was useless and won't eat any type of supplement. He's on unlimited 2nd cut grass hay, 8 pounds of triple crown senior (over the course of 4 meals!) and SUCCEED paste.

    Any ideas??? He's the worst eater ever but LOVES his hay!!
    Kristen

    Kiwayu & Figiso Pictures:
    http://community.webshots.com/user/kiwayu

  • #2
    I'd consider salmonella or giardia.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      The fecal was tested for all that 3 weeks ago. Next on my list was hind gut ulcers. Anything else???
      Kristen

      Kiwayu & Figiso Pictures:
      http://community.webshots.com/user/kiwayu

      Comment


      • #4
        I think investigating hind gut ulcers wouldn't be a bad place to start.
        "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

        Comment


        • #5
          Is your soil sandy at all? I had a horse who never made solid manure and it STANK. Had a history of cow patty manure from previous owner. Tried every product, ran fecals, never figured it out. Best thing was "Probios", manure wasn't solid on that but at least a semi formed patty and didn't have to wash his bum every day.

          Sold him on to a farm that was on clay soil, not sandy like ours, and he never had a problem with manure again. Turned out even the smallest speck of sand irritated his gut for some reason.
          Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

          Comment


          • #6
            anaerobic bacteria in the gut can be one cause. My former BO did not clorox her well as I told her to. One pony got diarrhea 2 summers in a row. I have a bottle of the drug that eliminates the anaerobic bacteria. It's metrodiazonole, or something like that. Works well.

            You should always consult your vet. It could be a feed change or a weed in the pasture or something in the hay. Or something else in the intestines.

            Is this the new horse? Didn't your vet eliminate ulcers?

            My horses get psyllium to prevent sand colic. one of the signs of sand colic is diarrhea, but of course you can find the sand yourself in the manure when you put it in water.

            Comment


            • #7
              I second Probios. I bought a 4 year old, OTTB from the Secretariat Center in June. She had terrible cow pattie manure. I started her on Probios and she was pooping normally by the end of the week.

              My other mare gets Probios and EquiShure from KER. The EquiShure helps move stuff through the hindgut.
              When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                I will try a probiotic next but he will not eat anything in his feed and syringing anything into his mouth is becoming more and more difficult each day between the SUCCEED paste and the biosponge.
                Kristen

                Kiwayu & Figiso Pictures:
                http://community.webshots.com/user/kiwayu

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you're still syringing in the biosponge, use the powder and mix it with fruit juice. The biosponge syringes can be reused--filling them is easy if you mix the powder and fruit juice in a ziplock and cut the corner off. Squeeze it like a pastry bag.

                  My horse tells me it's quite palatable this way.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just FYI about the Probios - it seems to taste really yummy. I have a pony gelding that won't eat anything but he will eat that stuff. All the horses in my barn call to me when they smell it....so it is definitely worth a try...maybe you'll get lucky.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I used probios that up came in a syringe. Worked amazingly well when my gelding (on stall rest) suddenly had FOUL smelling poops.
                      Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
                      White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

                      Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We only work with TBs. Personally I don’t like pellet, textured horse feed. To each their own on this. I assume you got him straight from the racetrack? The majority of trainers do not feed pellet or textured feed so this might not be agreeing with him. Do you know what he was getting before you got him? Not sure of the need for a senior feed anyway. Being loose right off the trailer is not unusual and not during a transitional period especially if he came from the track. Did you call and ask if he was this way before you got him? Smithtown, nice area, should still have nice grass something that track horses don’t get much of. This along with the transition could prolong his looseness. Personally I am not a big fan of most sublimates I feel they do more for the owner then the horse to each their own. I would put him on beet pulp for fiber, with Purina Horsemen’s Edge or something of like, 50-50, 3 feedings at 3 pounds each feeding, lightly soak the beet pulp to mix better. Get a hold of if you can a really nice 1st cutting Timothy or Orchard, good leaf, stem, color and smell. Higher in fiber which should help tighten him up. If you have a good 1st cutting and he stays loose cut back on the feed and make sure he tucks into the hay. It may take a couple of weeks but if he remains, bright, eager, and doesn’t hang his head most of the time just monitor. He should work through the transition.
                        I generally don’t comment much on feeding and other horse issues because I am not working with the subject horse nor know it’s history or personality. All of this may or may not apply. Contrary to popular believe TBs are generally easy keepers IME.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I just went through this with my OTTB, in fact she has been close to cow patty manure for years. Finally after trying probiotics, biosponge, ulcer meds, no grain, and floating her teeth, we tried feeding her like she has PSSM. So she is on a fatty diet with alfalfa and hay. Specifically, she gets Tribute Kalm N EZ, Buckeye Ultimate Finish, and alfalfa pellets mixed together. She does not receive sweet feed. Within a week her manure improved, and now she is have manure that is nearly normal (balled but extra moist).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            we went thru this with one of our boarders.our good local hay was too rich,so went with a good timothy and the coarsest ugly old hay we could find.the mixture is working very well,and we have solid poop!only a horse person could appreciate this!
                            mm

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              This guy came from Nee Vocations and hasn't been on the track since last year. He came on pellets and was warned he was picky about feed. The only thing I can get him to eat is senior (plus he coliced) so the vet said senior was good for him. Won't touch a single thing if its wet. I tried beet pulp, alfalfa cubes, alfalfa pellets, rice bran, bran (got desperate!!!) , etc. You name it, I've tried it! He came on alfalfa hay and pellets and I switched him to grass hay. I don't have pasture here just sand paddocks. It can't be the sand causing it because he stepped off the trailer with cow patties and nothing has changed. I'm going to try the probiotics and the vet is coming tomorrow so I'm going to talk to her about the manure again. Our last conversation was to try the biosponge and succeed.
                              Kristen

                              Kiwayu & Figiso Pictures:
                              http://community.webshots.com/user/kiwayu

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                several years ago I had a horse with very soft and cow patty manure... It was horrible and I was desperate. The barnowner had a mixture of feed, which he produced (he owned a feed mill) Finally I asked him to quit feeding this food and just give oats to my horse. And very strange from that day the manure was perfect...
                                I think my horse had problems with some ingredient in this feed.

                                So maybe try to reduce the food to very few components. I know you dont usually fee rolled oats over here, but I would try it just for a period of time...
                                https://www.facebook.com/Luckyacresfarm
                                https://www.facebook.com/Ulrike-Bsch...4373849955364/

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Kiwayu View Post
                                  The fecal was tested for all that 3 weeks ago. Next on my list was hind gut ulcers. Anything else???
                                  Did you do a course of omeprazole? (or scope to rule out ulcers?)

                                  Have you tried pulling him off the grass hay & feeding alfalfa?

                                  How much water does he drink? 1 horse will stress drink to the point that her manure is water logged - cow patty style.

                                  I'd be inclined to remove everything from his diet & start again:
                                  hay only (again I'd feed alfalfa - I'm assuming that NV didn't have the same digestive issues with the horse), if no change, vet consult re omeprazole/metronidazole etc.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by alto View Post
                                    Did you do a course of omeprazole? (or scope to rule out ulcers?)

                                    Have you tried pulling him off the grass hay & feeding alfalfa?

                                    How much water does he drink? 1 horse will stress drink to the point that her manure is water logged - cow patty style.

                                    I'd be inclined to remove everything from his diet & start again:
                                    hay only (again I'd feed alfalfa - I'm assuming that NV didn't have the same digestive issues with the horse), if no change, vet consult re omeprazole/metronidazole etc.
                                    He was scoped for ulcers 3 weeks ago-negative! The only thing we will never know is hind gut ulcers so maybe I will asked to treat for that to cover my bases. He has had ulcers in the past according to his owner/breeder.
                                    Kristen

                                    Kiwayu & Figiso Pictures:
                                    http://community.webshots.com/user/kiwayu

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      My TB started with semi-cow patties when he went out on grass at our new place in the spring, which is pretty rich. Not enough to be concerned but frustrating. When I ran out of UGard (which he's been on since his omeprazole course) I switched him to Tractgard because I had a free sample.

                                      Darned if his poops weren't more normal and less stinky in a week, and he's eating more grass/less hay . The product info talks more about "loosening" things but did the opposite IME.
                                      http://essas-storm.blogspot.ca/ An OTTB rescue/project found me!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I think I read somewhere that horses who have had (or have) gastric ulcers are at an increased rate for also having hind gut ulcers. I cannot recall where I remember seeing this.

                                        It wouldn't hurt to try treating for hindgut ulcers.
                                        "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                                        Comment

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