• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Who is responsible?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Who is responsible?

    I got a call late evening a week or so ago...another boarder was at the farm and saw my horse freaking out in his stall to the point that he kicked and dislodged/broke the grill that formed the top half of his stall wall. My horse had NEVER been seen kicking before, and we found a good number of bees in his stall afterward...anyway, the grill was replaced with wood paneling. Today I was emailed a $600 repair bill.
    What am I responsible for, legally/ethically? I feel like it would be reasonable to pay maybe half of the repair cost, but realistically barns do get wear and tear. Am I really off base in my thinking?
    Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

  • #2
    You aren't responsible for a penny. Things happen, fences and stalls get damaged. This was an accident, a one time thing. And the fact that he must have been stung --- caused by bees in the barn --- barn owner needs to chalk it up to wear and tear and horses.


    • #3
      The answer to this question really lies in the terms of your boarding contract.

      Where I board, you'd be on the hook for the repairs. Wear and tear is one thing, a horse going nuts and kicking down the stall is another.

      $600 sounds a little crazy though. I'd want to see the repair bill. I'd expect to pay for materials and a reasonable rate for labor, if the bill is ridiculously padded well that's just a sleazy thing to do. You probably could have done it yourself or even hired a handyman to do the work for a fraction of that, it would have been nice if BO had extended you that courtesy. Mine certainly does, with the only caveat being the repair must be done to her standards (which are always reasonable).

      So, while the right thing for you to do is probably pay for stall repairs, sounds like your BO might be trying to pull a fast one on you with the dollar amount.


      • #4
        $600?! What did they panel it with, teak?!


        • #5
          For $600 I figured it was a fancy grill that had to be bought specially to match -- but if they put up wood I can't see it costing $600. Unless the wood is temporary while they wait for the special ordered grill to come in??

          Best to ask for a detailed bill. And decide how much you want to keep boarding there when you decide whether to just pay it or try to negotiate it down. You may be asked to leave if you won't pay it.

          If we asked the BO, what would they say? Has this horse perhaps caused other damage they haven't charged you for?
          ... and Patrick


          • #6
            my first thought is that if there was a bee hive in the stall or close by, and none of the barn staff noticed it, then you should not be responsible. But if the horse acted up "late evening" that does not seem to be bee related, as they aren't generally active after dark. So maybe that wasn't the cause...
            If you have a boarding contract, something should be in there; if not, it really depends on your relationship w/ BO and how much you want to fight. I only can think of one time THAT I KNOW OF where a boarder was asked to pay for damages, and it was reasonable in the situation.
            I'd second the recommendation to get the details of the costs.
            We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........


            • #7
              i would bring up the bees. That was their fault to allow bees to nest in your stall and hurt your horse. You might still be asked to pay, But I would def. Bring it up..


              • #8
                Originally posted by GaitedGloryRider View Post
                The answer to this question really lies in the terms of your boarding contract.

                Where I board, you'd be on the hook for the repairs. Wear and tear is one thing, a horse going nuts and kicking down the stall is another.
                Yes, this.
                Honestly, if my horse significantly damaged something (and I'm not talking about breaking a fence board) I'd like to pay at least half anyway. I think that's only fair. If I was at the Ritz Carlton of barns I might think twice before chipping on for more minor things, but for a seriously damaged wall, I'd pay half at least anyway (and offer to help fix it), and more if the contract said so.

                My horse significantly damaged a gate. The gate was already in poor shape, but it was in much worse shape after my horse got done with that. I paid for half and picked it up in my truck, and helped put it up. I think that's fair. BO got a new gate, but the gate wouldn't have been needed if my horse hadn't crashed it.

                High quality stall partitions can be quite expensive, so if it needed to be replaced instead of repaired, I think $600 sounds reasonable, especially if it was the length of the whole wall.
                As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.


                • Original Poster

                  Correction, just did the math...$450 parts, $280 labor. So a total of $730. That is almost 2 months' board.
                  Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique


                  • #10
                    Was that bill broken down in terms of cost for parts?

                    It sounds like custom materials may be involved & labor barn staff could not do.
                    Too bad BO did not contact you to inform you that you would be billed.
                    But unless you plan to move, the best you can probably do is ask to set up a payment plan so you don't need to come up with the whole amount at once.
                    *friend of bar.ka*RIP all my lovely boys, gone too soon:
                    Steppin' Out 1988-2004
                    Hey Vern! 1982-2009, Cash's Bay Threat 1994-2009
                    Sam(Jaybee Altair) 1994-2015


                    • Original Poster

                      It was $375 for grill (about half of that shipping), $75 for lumber, $280 for labor. BO owns a construction company, so he can do the work himself.
                      I feel justified in paying to replace grill. I am also happy to help put it up. Beyond that, I'm not so sure.
                      Particularly given that this place was advertised as luxury horse boarding but rats and mice run amok, chickens run around and poop in the tack room, and recently the place ran out of bedding. Completely.

                      ETA: I have been on a waiting list for another barn since moving to this state. This was my second-best choice, but it's a new place, and these people haven't figured out the business part of things yet--how does an entire boarding facility run out of bedding?
                      I have no intention of staying here long-term, but that doesn't mean I want to screw these people over.
                      Last edited by cleozowner; Sep. 13, 2013, 07:35 AM. Reason: added comment
                      Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique


                      • #12
                        Well, sounds like you plan on moving anyhow.

                        If that's the case then offer to pay for materials and see how that's accepted.
                        Even if BO owns a construction company he may be too busy to do the work himself. Maybe they had to pay an employee of that company OT to do the work?
                        Was the labor broken down into an hourly rate?

                        I was married to a locksmith.
                        Whose house do you think was master-keyed after everyone else including our 2nd floor tenants?

                        As for running out of bedding.
                        Stuff happens - if a promised delivery is delayed w/o notice for example.

                        The rodent problem & chicken issues - that just sounds sloppy.
                        Do they have barn cats or any apparent means of vermin control?
                        And as long as the chickens don't poop on tack that is just an annoyance (says the chicken owner who regularly watches where she steps when barefoot...).
                        *friend of bar.ka*RIP all my lovely boys, gone too soon:
                        Steppin' Out 1988-2004
                        Hey Vern! 1982-2009, Cash's Bay Threat 1994-2009
                        Sam(Jaybee Altair) 1994-2015


                        • Original Poster

                          The BO refuses to get cats (BM wants them, though). I was ok with the chickens--just annoyed--until they started perching on water buckets and pooping in them.
                          The BO has their own dump truck--it's a matter of going and getting bedding. It went on for about a week. I was bedding my horse with straw left over from decorating for a kid's birthday party.
                          Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique


                          • #14
                            Sounds like BO is splitting his time between his regular job (construction) and the barn work.
                            Dump truck may have been committed to another job.
                            One that paid him, not cost.
                            I recently had some work on my farm rescheduled because the excavator had to work around delivery of stone.

                            However, I'd be annoyed too if no alternative bedding was provided for an entire week.
                            Kids B-Day?
                            Was that held at the farm?
                            If the BOs are putting too many items like that on the barn plate maybe they are coming to realize the business end involves more commitment than they planned.
                            *friend of bar.ka*RIP all my lovely boys, gone too soon:
                            Steppin' Out 1988-2004
                            Hey Vern! 1982-2009, Cash's Bay Threat 1994-2009
                            Sam(Jaybee Altair) 1994-2015


                            • Original Poster

                              The pony parties are a big deal--I think BO's wife enjoys planning such things. They are the swanky, over-the-top, designed-so-you-can-one-up-other-parents kind of events.
                              I think they are realizing that farm ownership is more work and less fun than previously thought. That said, THAT part of it is not my problem.
                              It could be a nice facility if they worked at it.
                              Will go talk to BM today...
                              Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique


                              • #16
                                I would suspect, considering the other things you've posted about rats and chickens going in water buckets etc, that there's a nest or hive and BO hasn't worked on removing. If it were me, I'd offer to split the cost.

                                Side note - can't believe they ran out of bedding, and then you're having to find materials to take care of your own horse. What were they doing, just letting them stand on the mats or dirt until they had time to get shavings? What were the owners of other horses doing? Doesn't sound top end, if that's what they're touting themselves as...

                                I hope you're able to find a new farm soon or get into the one you're on the list for! Eek!


                                • Original Poster

                                  Some of the stalls are concrete without mats...over my dead body would that happen to my horse--he is in a matted stall. The barn manager was occasionally going to Tractor Supply to get bagged shavings. However, my horse is on stall rest right now, so he was going through bedding faster (NOTE: I am paying extra for the extra bedding he is using). There was a few day stretch with no shavings at all, though, so I grabbed the straw bales they had stacked in a shed. What else could I do?
                                  There are only a few other boarders right now, but they are either brand new to horse ownership (I guess don't know any better?) or pretty absentee-type owners.
                                  Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique


                                  • #18
                                    Unless your horse is a real problem and constantly damaging property, (which he's not), it's the cost of doing business and not your responsibility.


                                    • #19
                                      Part of this insistence on paying the full costs may be the result of the owners being new to the business. They haven't yet realized the kind of damage that horses will inflict over the long-term. Plus there's the issue of "my brand new barn just got a boo-boo."

                                      I'd offer to split the cost, but in the same conversation I'd ask about the owner's plans to eradicate the bee's nest and restrain the chickens from being underfoot.

                                      Definitely, though, find another barn. After that conversation it's possible that the BO will not be your best friend.
                                      "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by GaitedGloryRider View Post
                                        The answer to this question really lies in the terms of your boarding contract.

                                        Where I board, you'd be on the hook for the repairs. Wear and tear is one thing, a horse going nuts and kicking down the stall is another.

                                        This. That is not normal wear and tear. When I had a boarding barn, you would have been responsible for at least half if not all of the cost of repair. That also would have been in your contract.

                                        I'm glad you are moving anyway. Performance horses, any horse really, but performance horses especially, should not be stabled on concrete floors--even with mats. My trainer was asked to be a trainer at a new barn and when she saw them pouring concrete in the stalls, told them to find another trainer.