Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

X-ray experts!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    X-ray experts!

    I have gotten two different opinions on my horse's hock x-rays and am conflicted on what to do. I don't know what to look for other then what the vet pointed out to me. I would appreciate any opinions on what you see in his x-rays. Thank you!

    http://s1343.photobucket.com/user/st...y/hock%20xrays

    #2
    Other than the vet who pointed things out to you, who else read them.

    They can also be sent to another vet, for a third opinion. For that I would use someone who does equine only, and preferably a sport horse specialist.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

    Comment

      Original Poster

      #3
      both vets that looked at them are equine only and one is a sport horse specialist.

      Comment


        #4
        JMHO!

        I'm sorry you're asking a bunch of strangers who aren't vets or radiologists to help you with your conflict. You need to resolve this with your docs . Obviously you've been told something you don't want to hear. I don't think you trust them which is sad. We can't know you, your riding, your horse, his problems etc from just xrays alone. We can make better opinions about his hock issues if you'd tell us what the problem is. Then we can share our opinions/experiences or thoughts....but reading Xrays?!!! Is this some kinda test or something? Like "guess the xray changes"? Really now....how many of us are really qualified to do this?!!!!

        Comment

          Original Poster

          #5
          I have had two vets look at his xrays. One said slight signs of arthritis but nothing to really be concerned about. If he shows any issues in the future maybe inject. Another said they saw clear signs of mild to moderate arthritis, maybe one joint that has already fused and recommended injections now. He doesn't have a history of hock problems. We took the xrays because after a few days of stall rest for a diff issue he got really stiff. He has recently been treated for Lyme and overall moving much better. I just thought that since I've never had xrays taken before that maybe someone here had some experience looking at them.

          Comment

            Original Poster

            #6
            I do trust both vets but since their opinions differ I am conflicted. I am fine doing injections if he needs them but if he doesn't he's only 9 and I would rather wait.

            Comment


              #7
              further thoughts

              Now we can render a better opinion for ya.!! Sounds like they both are saying he has normal xrays for a 9 yr old. Both say mild. One says treat, one not. Go with not! All horses, especially athletically used ones, have arthritis in joints as they age. If he's never been hock lame then just do PREVENTATIVE things for arthritis: lotsa turnout (proven by stall bound stiffness which sounds normal to me), moderate exercise, less collected/jumping riding to save hocks, good hind shoeing/angles, maybe some joint supplements like MSM, or my favorite=Adequan. Remember: xray changes are normal as they age. ex: most horses over say 12 have navicular changes or many older draft crosses have sidebone. But they are sound! Most older horses hocks fuse. Just because it's there; doesn't mean it has to be treated. Just watch it; know it's there. Go with how he moves. Only treat lameness imho!! But if an owner is upset or insists often the vet will treat . I once bought a 7 yr old qh with bad navicular changes on xray. Good horse & sound. He foxhunted over fences until he was in his mid 20's sound. Did the usual good management things and he never took a lame step. Xrays are not the kiss of death I think.

              Comment

                Original Poster

                #8
                Thank you! He is normally on 24/7 turnout so 3 days in a stall did make him stiffen up. I feel the same way I'd rather wait and see if he needs it. He is on Pentosan and MSM. He is barefoot all around but his feet look great. I don't ride that hard, 4-6 days a week but usually only for half an hour and mostly flatwork. Small crossrails depending on the day. I would like to do more showing/jumping but I won't be doing anything huge and can adjust based on how he feels. I do wish my barn had trails I get tired of riding in the ring.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think it depends on the horse. We had a horse that was nine not really visibly lame but just not as willing to go forward as we like. Minor changes in hocks we injected this past January horse has been going great since. Different vets have different opinions on weather to inject sooner or later. Xrays show bony changes but they do not show cartilage changes so xrays do not always give the whole picture. From what I have been told inflammation is the worse thing for joints so injecting reducing the inflammation at the source can be pro active. There are some small risks to injecting but aside from that I think it only has the potential to make the horse more comfortable. I think it is pretty safe to inject the hocks as needed until eventually the joint starts to fuse.

                  Comment

                    Original Poster

                    #10
                    Thanks he was really stiff on Weds so I am going to go ahead and inject. Hopefully it helps!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I'd rely more on clinical signs that the radiographs for the decision on whether or not to treat. If you want another opinion on the rads, you could always send them along to a radiologist.
                      "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                      ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Fharoah View Post
                        From what I have been told inflammation is the worse thing for joints so injecting reducing the inflammation at the source can be pro active. There are some small risks to injecting but aside from that I think it only has the potential to make the horse more comfortable.
                        Injections are not being "pro-active". Besides the risk of infection, the drugs used (catabolic steroids) can cause further joint/bone damage over time. Not a benign treatment by any means and should be done only when all else fails.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by stargzng386 View Post
                          Another said they saw clear signs of mild to moderate arthritis, maybe one joint that has already fused and recommended injections now.
                          Fused distal tarsal joints is not "mild to moderate" osteoarthritis! That is what occurs after end-stage disease, when all of the articular cartilage is completely gone. The fact that the vets differ from "mild enough OA to not even bother with injections" to another who says "the joints have fused" represents a huge difference in vet opinions.
                          I see (small) osteophytes which indicate moderate to severe OA. But I'm not a vet nor a radiologist; just a researcher in the OA field.
                          And as Ghazzu rightly pointed out, you treat the clinical symptoms, not the rads. My 27 year old's hocks look like crap on rads but I haven't injected him since he was 18 and he's just fine.
                          And rcloisonne is correct. The IA injections, especially if they inject steroids, will further degrade the cartilage. However, in some horses, especially young horses that is the point so that the hocks will fuse. But not all hocks will fuse so you run that risk.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Rads are just used to get a picture of the mechanics. The determining factor is always functionality and comfort. If he is sound and comfortable and able to do his job without limitations, leave it alone, re-x-ray every 12 months to track progression and wait. If he is showing some symptoms, I'd be more inclined to start on IM injections than joint injections. Save sticking something in the joint as a last resort.
                            Strong promoter of READING the entire post before responding.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Im no expert in horse rads, but to me the L looks more iffy than the R as far as arthritis goes. But the R looks a little more fused in the distal joints. However...neither would have me running away if the horse was sound. Preventive maintenance now - and inject later if needed.

                              Comment

                                Original Poster

                                #16
                                Thanks for all of the opinions. He does seem to be worse on his right hock then left though the vet did say the left looked worse than the right. He is already getting Pentosan and that did make a difference. Right now he is sore on his front feet b/c of the crappy weather and flies so he's getting shoes Weds. He is stiff in his hocks from not moving around the field as much but hopefully with shoes that will get better. I'll see how he goes and if we keep having stiff days go ahead and inject. He would be injected with steroids and HA.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X