• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Combining IRAP and HA in an injection?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Combining IRAP and HA in an injection?

    Vets are proposing IRAP combined with HA for a horse in my barn who has significant arthritis in multiple joints.

    I've never heard of the two combined and am a touch leary (*edited - prob best if I don't post all the stuff I've been through with this clinic!).

    It is possible I'm being paranoid, but part of me wonders if they are just adding on extra stuff cause they think i'll pay for anything.

    I would be very happy to hear that I am being silly and this combo is standard or even new but promising. Just having some trust issues here!!


    Thanks in advance!!
    Last edited by clivers; Jun. 11, 2013, 12:33 PM.

  • #2
    I will go with your vet is ignorant about the interactions and functions of the two.

    NO, don't combine the two as there can be interaction between the sodium hyaluronate and the Il-1ra.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Reed,
      can you give me a super basic idea of what the interaction does? I'm not challenging, would just love to know more!
      thank you!!

      Comment


      • #4
        I wouldn't do that personally as it would likely be waisteful. Also, significant arthritis tends to not respond to HA very well (compared to other options).

        I've had good luck with prp or prp plus triamicolone for horses that do not respond to steroids alone. I've seen some amazing results with adepose derived stem cells plus prp.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          We did to regular HA+triamcinolone in February and he felt good initially but it only lasted 6-8 weeks or so

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by clivers View Post
            We did to regular HA+triamcinolone in February and he felt good initially but it only lasted 6-8 weeks or so
            Which begs the question: if that didn't work sufficiently, why take the weaker of the two drugs and use it?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by flyracing View Post
              I wouldn't do that personally as it would likely be waisteful. Also, significant arthritis tends to not respond to HA very well (compared to other options).

              I've had good luck with prp or prp plus triamicolone for horses that do not respond to steroids alone. I've seen some amazing results with adepose derived stem cells plus prp.
              In a joint? There has never been one study or is there any body of evidence that suggests stem cells directly injected into a joint stimulates healing or cartilage generation. There is no support structure/physiology or mechanism to get the cells to differentiate etc.

              HA is an anti-inflammatory in the joint. Not as good as triamcinolone but effective. The reason HA+tri only works as long as it did was the metabolic action of arthritis and the fact only the inflammatory pathways were targeted. Was the assumption that HA will act as synovial fluid?

              As for binding, yes, Il-1ra and HA can bind. In experiments, HA is used to bind up Il-1ra for a delayed release subcutaneous administration (Bendele 2000). However this is not a clinical type application and it is not as simple as putting HA you get in a clinic with Il-1ra in a clinic.

              Comment


              • #8
                I have had very good luck with the IRAP done on my horse's fetlock 2 years ago (knock wood). Sound since. In my case there was no combined treatment with HA, no follow-up treatment with HA, nothing at all injected since. My vet did suggest a flax seed supplement for possible prevention and it is either helping or at least not hurting.

                Also a friend had IRAP in her horse's fetlock longer ago than mine and hers has stayed sound as well.

                I'd go with the IRAP and see how that works for you first; you may want injections down the road but I'd let the IRAP work its magic first. No point paying for 2 things at once and then not really being sure which one of them had an impact.
                It's just grass and water till it hits the ground.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Thanks for posting - I will keep my fingers crossed for a positive result.

                  In the interim, I guess I will ask for the IRAP without HA.

                  Reed, I'm sorry but I am still confused about the possible interaction between the two. Can you dumb it down a bit more for me? Thanks again!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by clivers View Post
                    Thanks for posting - I will keep my fingers crossed for a positive result.

                    In the interim, I guess I will ask for the IRAP without HA.

                    Reed, I'm sorry but I am still confused about the possible interaction between the two. Can you dumb it down a bit more for me? Thanks again!!

                    The idea of interaction is similar to oil and water and salt and water.

                    If there is no "interaction" the two components will remain separate and maintain their specific activities (oil and water).

                    If there is an "interaction" then the "mixture" becomes something totally different that may or may not work (salt in water).

                    There can be synergistic effect (they add to each other) that may or may not help (salt water can be used for cooking but you don't want to drink it directly).

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Thanks Reed!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I had a simular case. Responded to IRAP beautifully. I would give IRAP a try, its the next logical step as IRAP is suggested for horses that don't have long lasting effects from steroid HA injections.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Thanks Fharoah!

                          He had his IRAP yesterday (no HA) and will be having 4 days off and resuming hacking on Monday.

                          I'll keep you guys posted

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X