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Trimmed too short vs laminitic?

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  • Trimmed too short vs laminitic?

    Hey all, I'm going to give the vet a call in the morning, but I'm curious to hear what other people think in the meantime.

    I have a 13 year old quarter pony mare. She's on the heavier side, about a 7 but not terribly cresty. She is currently on a strict diet- 1 cup of a hay stretcher twice a day, two flakes of grass hay a day, in a (mostly) dry lot during the day and gets turned out at night with a grazing muzzle. I've had her for almost 3 years and she's always gone barefoot with no problems.

    The farrier was out yesterday afternoon and trimmed her. I rode yesterday evening. She was sore stepping on some of the bigger stones on the gravel driveway (she usually is not), but was fine in the ring. I rode her again this afternoon and she was pretty sore on the gravel driveway and a little sore in the ring, especially if she caught an uneven area in the footing. She seems fine otherwise, walks around her dry lot and seems pretty comfortable.

    Opinions? Is she just foot sore or early-stage laminitic? Should I give her bute and keep her in off the grass tonight just in case?

  • #2
    Does she have pulses in her feet? Feet normal temperature? Heart rate?
    Click here before you buy.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Heart rate and respiratory rate are both normal. Digital pulses might be slightly increased, but there is no heat in her feet.

      Comment


      • #4
        If she's comfortable other than on rough/hard surfaces and was just trimmed, I'd be putting my money on just post-trim mild ouchyness. Wouldn't hurt to ice her feet and give a dose of the NSAID of your choice, probably, and just keep checking.
        Click here before you buy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Could it be a touch of grass founder, muzzle and all, grass right now, if it is growing actively, can do that?

          If so she should get over it in a day or two more, if you limit her grass time for now.

          Comment


          • #6
            Trimmed too short ~ a couple of days and all will be fine ~ IMHO

            Trimmed too short ~ a couple of days and all will be fine !

            Jingles & AO ~
            Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

            Comment


            • #7
              I'd vote laminitis - having just had this same experience this week. Cooler weather, and I turned them out for a few hours in the afternoon instead of the morning, which had been the norm for the last week and a half (but since farrier was there in the morning they didn't get turned out). Same as your description - no heat, very mild pulse, and mild symptoms (short-stridedness) only noticeable under saddle the following day.

              Late afternoon/evening turnout will have the highest sugar content in pasture.

              My farrier came back and checked my mare, and did not feel that the trim was related; he has never left any of my horses sore *ever* after a trim...so I agree it was more likely to be the grass. In any case, I cold hosed her feet, gave NSAIDs, and off the grass for a few days.

              Even our vet clinic was warning people about the grass after the recent cool weather.

              Comment


              • #8
                My vote would be for foot sore if there's no heat. I've had one wear her toe of to the point of being very foot sore, but she had know heat at all in it. Cold hosing helps.
                Visit my Spoonflower shop

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                • #9
                  If she really has a BCS of 7 you ought to get blood work done. I assume you also informed your farrier of the situation. I would be really pissed off if I may have trimmed a horse too short and never heard about it from my client until the next appointment.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                    Even our vet clinic was warning people about the grass after the recent cool weather.
                    Hallelujah. Word is finally getting around in the right circles.
                    Katy
                    Are you feeding your horse like a cow? www.safergrass.org

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I wouldn't rule out grass laminitis, but with a grazing muzzle on it is less likely. My bet is that the horse was trimmed on the short side.

                      However, definitely have the vet out, because laminitis is something you don't fool around with.

                      Also, I agree with Tom, with a BCS of 7, you might want to get bloodwork done, a solid 7 BCS is more than "on the heavier side".
                      come what may

                      Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Most horses with acute laminitis, even sub acute laminitis, are miserable in general. It doesn't affect their feet only.
                        Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                        Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by merrygoround View Post
                          Most horses with acute laminitis, even sub acute laminitis, are miserable in general. It doesn't affect their feet only.
                          I agree with this; I took in a Cushings horse in full blown founder last year. Miserable is an understatement.

                          But I think there are probably many horses that go around with "less than acute" bouts of laminitis all the time, especially in spring. Even with a grazing muzzle, a fat horse that is turned out all night is probably getting a fairly high dose of sugar.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            First you can the farrier back and he checks the hooves.
                            If he says laminitis, then you call the vet.
                            Sometimes trimming/shoeing aggravates laminitis and causes it to be noticed. Your horse can seem fine, then the pounding of nails into the hoof makes the laminitis noticeable.

                            Hoof issues, like eye issues, should be addressed immediately by a vet call.

                            So don't delay.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by merrygoround View Post
                              Most horses with acute laminitis, even sub acute laminitis, are miserable in general. It doesn't affect their feet only.
                              Disagree. People just don't notice or they think it's something else...footing, lazy horse, etc. Tripping is a sign, so is being a bit sluggish off the leg, so is not really wanting to work....these things could EASILY be laminitis. Know your risk factors. Know your horse.

                              I've had one come in from the field with strong pulses and perfectly fine otherwise. Not lame, just a touch short strided as though he just really wasn't into working too hard that day. Many people miss these signs, fail to treat it, and end up with founder because they think it will be more obvious.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I kind of side with Tom here. Call your farrier. Ask him/her their opinion. If it were my client, I'd come back out and do hoof testers and check what I can do. If it is short, you can shoe it, paint it's hooves with durasole, give bute a few days, etc...but at least call your farrier and let them know what is going on. What I suspect is your horse may well be sub clinically laminitic and seemed fine...until trimmed. I've had that happen to some of my client's horses before this time of year. Seem fine but are out on grass...a bit too fat..kind of asking for laminitis. Give them a trim and suddenly...this trim out of none before they come up sore...it's easy to blame the farrier...and often what happens. That is usually a warning sign that all is not well especially if the farrier did nothing different than normal and there are no other factors. I know one farrier who hoof tests every single horse before he trims and if I have any suspicions, I'll do the same thing. I'd suggest you call your farrier and get him out to check the hooves..or the vet...which ever...but without bloodwork you don't really know if you've got an IR horse or not...and that is truly playing with fire.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Win ! -How can you be disagreeing when you say it's just that people don't notice.

                                  No, they don't come on with a banner, saying "I hurt all over!!" It is the job of a responsible horse owner, BM to be aware.
                                  Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                  Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Win1- -You are agreeing when you say it's just that people don't notice.

                                    No, horses don't come in with a banner, saying "I hurt all over!!" It is the job of a responsible horse owner, BM to be aware.
                                    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
                                      I would be really pissed off if I may have trimmed a horse too short and never heard about it from my client until the next appointment.
                                      Can I ask why you'd be pissed? What does it change?

                                      My farrier trimmed my gelding a little too short last time. Like the OP's horse he was fine except he was tender on the gravel drive or if he found a rock. He's a little flat moving in the hard indoor. There's nothing my farrier can do that I can't; I'm just putting DuraSole on and not riding until he's comfortable. The horse pulls shoes like none other so I'm not dealing with those, and I don't want to put a bunch of nail holes in a foot I keep bare anyway.
                                      I'll tell him when he comes out next time so he's more cautious.
                                      As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by CrowneDragon View Post
                                        Can I ask why you'd be pissed? What does it change?

                                        My farrier trimmed my gelding a little too short last time. Like the OP's horse he was fine except he was tender on the gravel drive or if he found a rock. He's a little flat moving in the hard indoor. There's nothing my farrier can do that I can't; I'm just putting DuraSole on and not riding until he's comfortable. The horse pulls shoes like none other so I'm not dealing with those, and I don't want to put a bunch of nail holes in a foot I keep bare anyway.
                                        I'll tell him when he comes out next time so he's more cautious.
                                        My farrier would be upset because he would like to make sure he doesn't repeat the problem. And, if he knew he did something to hurt a horse, he would come back and try to resolve it rather than letting the horse suffer -- I'm not sure how you fix a too short trim, but maybe a sole guard, Magic Cushion, or even wrapping or putting pads on; I know that my farrier's wraps stay on about 3x longer than anything I can do.

                                        Obviously helping alleviate pain is important, but most important is knowing what went wrong so it can be avoided. It might not be easy for the farrier to see - or even remember, if they have many clients - exactly what created the problem if you wait until the next trim.

                                        Comment

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