• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Joint Suppliments, "Yes" or "No"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    I wish I could do injectables! Alas, I do NOT do needles. As in, pass out in the floor when confronted with one.

    Once I get to know the people at this new barn better, I am considering moving to Legend or Pentosan or something. But, I'm not going to let someone I don't know stick a needle in my horse!
    Pisgah: 2000 AHHA (Holsteiner x TB) Mare (lower level eventing, with a focus on dressage)

    Darcy: 7? year old Border Collie x Rottweiler? Drama Queen extraordinaire, rescued from the pound in Jan 2010

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by emirae1091 View Post
      I wish I could do injectables! Alas, I do NOT do needles. As in, pass out in the floor when confronted with one.
      This is 100% curable if one has the will and the desire.
      Click here before you buy.

      Comment


      • #23
        I can confidently do IM injections with no issue. They are easy and really hard to screw up imo. I have been doing them since I was fourteen so really no issue. I have no issues with needles and I don't think if I did it would be hard to get over when you are injecting a horse not yourself.

        IV injections I am also comfortable doing. They took a lot more time than im before I was doing them alone. Its more factors and more room to screw up. I get my pentosan iv not im. I get my glucosomine im but sometimes I can find it cheaper iv. It really depends if I want to put the effort in and how much of a price difference it is.
        I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.

        Comment


        • #24
          You'll see that you will get a bunch of yes it works replies and never will touch the stuff replies. As for my experience I have found some that work wonders and others that don't at all. But I also believe it has to do with what works with your horse.

          I originally had my horse on Corti-flex and it worked wonders, but I wanted something more so I switched to the SP Cosequin. After about a month when I would pick his hind feet I would hear a "popping" noise like when you crack your knuckles. He had never had that before and had no injuries. The only difference between the two supplements was HA in the first and no HA in the second. So I switched again to Grand HA Synergy and never heard the nose again and my horse did wonderful on it! Never had a problem.

          Unfortunately, I had to switch again to SmartFlex Rehab for a tendon injury but I was blown away by how well it worked and have the Ultra Sounds to prove it. So now my boy is on the SmartFlex Rehab.

          I've had similar situations with my older horse and so I just find what works and use it, but I will say there are just as many that don't work for my guys, but that doesn't mean they don't work. Just like humans every horses system is different so different things work!
          Calm & Collected, 13, OTTB
          Forrest Gump (Catasauqua) , 17, OTTB
          Little Bit Indian, 29, TB
          Owner of Spur of the Moment, Custom made spur straps! Find us on Facebook

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by LarkspurCO View Post
            You forgot good shoeing, good footing and ice.
            You're absolutely right--and of the three, GOOD SHOEING is the one that matters most. You'd never believe the numbers of "lay-ups" I get who go home in 6 months, 100% sound and all I did was watch them wander the land barefoot.
            All they needed was a divorce from their farriers!

            Comment


            • #26
              [QUOTE=emirae1091;7013738]I wish I could do injectables! Alas, I do NOT do needles. As in, pass out in the floor when confronted with one.QUOTE]

              I once came verrrry close to passing out when my horse was blocked for an injury. Seeing the needle, smelling the alcohol and hearing the things on the metal tray did me in.

              However, I worked up the courage to give my horse his Pentosan and it's no big deal. Well, a bigger deal for me than my horse, but I do it, partly because he's my baby and I'll do what has to be done, and partly because I can't afford to pay the vet to do it. He gets lots of rubs and treats afterwards (makes me feel better about it--he couldn't care less). I don't look forward to doing it, but I do.

              Maybe if you watch someone else give one, from a distance to start with. Or watch Youtube videos of the same. Load the syringe for someone else. Acclimate yourself to it.

              My vet mistakenly left me thicker needles than I usually use. That made me queasy---I could imagine that harpooning a whale!

              Comment


              • #27
                I've had great results using a chelated joint supplement. Got a STB who wore out the cartilage in his fetlock joint racing. He was 3 legged lame. Got xrays and vet said "Bute for life." I wanted to get him healthy so I opted for the supp and a wait and see approach. Put him on high therapeutic dose. In a year he was pasture sound. In a little more than 2 years he was riding sound. Now he maintains on the regular dosage and is happy and comfortable. I even galloped him on the trail and a friend played with running barrels on him.

                He did so well that I decided to try the human version. Bad knees that pop and crack and achiness getting up and down. Took therapeutic dose until one day I notice that my knees didn't need to be popped all the time and I was walking more fluidly. It actually felt like my stride was longer. Way cool! As long as I stay on the maintenance dose my body moves freely. If I stop for any length of time the creakiness returns. I hate taking the capsules but love the results.

                Bottom line might work, can't hurt.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by FLeventer View Post
                  I can confidently do IM injections with no issue. They are easy and really hard to screw up imo. I have been doing them since I was fourteen so really no issue. I have no issues with needles and I don't think if I did it would be hard to get over when you are injecting a horse not yourself.

                  IV injections I am also comfortable doing. They took a lot more time than im before I was doing them alone. Its more factors and more room to screw up. I get my pentosan iv not im. I get my glucosomine im but sometimes I can find it cheaper iv. It really depends if I want to put the effort in and how much of a price difference it is.
                  True, very hard to screw up!

                  Except for on my poor gelding. First shot we did ourselves, my husband was vet assistant to my equine vet for 4 years, why not, as he was confident in doing shots. We gave it, came back hours later and realized, he had injected near a nerve (or something, I really know nothing about giving shots and I was bawling my eyes out at 11pm because my horse wouldnt bare weight on that leg.) So after banimine, bran compresses and the next week we did our second loading dose, we opted for the vet to come out.

                  Hit.it.again. Two people who could give shots in their sleep. My poor gelding! Nothing's happened since then, but my horse was seriously WTF for some shots after that.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I prefer injectables, but as I understand, Adequan is still quite difficult to obtain; if my vet told me correctly yesterday, it's regularly on backorder.

                    I maintain that oral supplements will not do enough to help osteoarthritis. There may be some potential for helping to delay onset of the disease a little, but I am skeptical of that as well.
                    Glucosamine is the only oral supplement that, as far as I know, has even had an inkling of potential in alleviating osteoarthritis symptoms and potentially delaying pathogenesis in horses.
                    However, this study published in 2009 pretty much says that the studies showing efficacy of oral joint supplements in horses have some significant limitations that may lead to the authors overstating the effects of these supplements on degenerative joint diseases.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      [QUOTE=pony baloney;7015243]
                      Originally posted by emirae1091 View Post
                      I wish I could do injectables! Alas, I do NOT do needles. As in, pass out in the floor when confronted with one.QUOTE]

                      I once came verrrry close to passing out when my horse was blocked for an injury. Seeing the needle, smelling the alcohol and hearing the things on the metal tray did me in.

                      However, I worked up the courage to give my horse his Pentosan and it's no big deal. Well, a bigger deal for me than my horse, but I do it, partly because he's my baby and I'll do what has to be done, and partly because I can't afford to pay the vet to do it. He gets lots of rubs and treats afterwards (makes me feel better about it--he couldn't care less). I don't look forward to doing it, but I do.

                      Maybe if you watch someone else give one, from a distance to start with. Or watch Youtube videos of the same. Load the syringe for someone else. Acclimate yourself to it.

                      My vet mistakenly left me thicker needles than I usually use. That made me queasy---I could imagine that harpooning a whale!
                      Nope! My parents made it worse. When I was having issues as a kid, they and the Dr tried to help me 'deal with it'. So I went from being scared/not liking it, to passing out in the floor. Defense mechanism??

                      It is what it is. I'm going to ask the BM at this new barn if she gives shots. I just moved there this weekend, so I don't think I trust her to give a shot quite yet, but everything else is very well run, and she seems very knowledgeable. Maybe once I've been there longer/seen her give one?
                      Pisgah: 2000 AHHA (Holsteiner x TB) Mare (lower level eventing, with a focus on dressage)

                      Darcy: 7? year old Border Collie x Rottweiler? Drama Queen extraordinaire, rescued from the pound in Jan 2010

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        The oral supplement works well on one of my horses, not at all on the other. The first horse has many arthritic problems, so it is a blessing that he is more comfortable with the supplement. The latter horse moves the same on it, or off of it. Smooth, comfortable, easy movement without it, so that's how he rolls for the time being.
                        "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

                        http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I think the answer is that it is going to depend on the horse.

                          I tried a few different feed-through supplements for my mare in addition to her 1x monthly Adequan injection. Once I was looking at the supplements that would cost as much as a second Adequan injection, I started just doing Adequan 2x/month instead. The 2x monthly Adequan works far better for her than the Adequan + feed-through ever did.

                          Some horses, however, do quite well on feed-through supplements.
                          If we have to nail on talent, it's not talent.
                          Founder, Higher Standards Leather Care Addicts Anonymous

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Equine Vet J Suppl. 2006 Aug;(36):622-5.

                            Double blind investigation of the effects of oral supplementation of combined glucosamine hydrochloride (GHCL) and chondroitin sulphate (CS) on stride characteristics of veteran horses.

                            Forsyth RK, Brigden CV, Northrop AJ.


                            Source

                            Animal and Equine Science Department, Myerscough College, St. Michaels Road, Bilsborrow, Preston, PR3 ORY Lancashire, UK.


                            Abstract


                            REASONS FOR PERFORMING STUDY:

                            Oral chondroprotective supplements are commercially popular for veteran (and other athletic or arthritic) horses prone to joint degeneration, yet lack conclusive scientific support.

                            OBJECTIVES:

                            To quantify the effects of an oral joint supplement (combination glucosamine hydrochloride (GHCL), chondroitin sulphate (CS) and N-acetyl-D-glucosamine) in vivo on stride parameters of veteran horses.

                            METHODS:

                            Twenty veteran horses were randomly assigned to a treatment (n = 15) or placebo group (n = 5). Pre-treatment gait characteristics were recorded at trot using digital video footage (50 Hz). The range of joint motion, stride length, and swing and stance duration were assessed using 2-dimensional motion analysis. Treatment (or placebo) was administered daily for 12 weeks at the manufacturer's recommended dosage. Gait was reassessed every 4 weeks using the pre-treatment protocol. Double blind procedure was implemented throughout. Relationships between variables were analysed using General Linear Model.

                            RESULTS:

                            Differences occurred in the treated horses by week 8. Range of joint motion increased significantly in the elbow (P<0.05), stifle and hind fetlock (P<0.01). Stride length increased significantly (P<0.05) with treatment. Swing duration was significantly increased at week 12 (P<0.05), whilst stance duration remained constant.

                            CONCLUSION:

                            The oral chondroprotective offered symptomatic relief to veteran horses, evidenced by improved stride characteristics.

                            POTENTIAL RELEVANCE:

                            Oral GHCL and CS supplementation may improve welfare by alleviating symptoms of degenerative joint disease.


                            PMID: 17402494 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #34
                              I was just informed there is a new injectable that is a generic adequate/legend mix. Have any of you used it? If so, what are your thoughts. The Icon, aka generic Adaquan was taken off the market and I cant get ahold of it anymore not sure if its a legal thing with trademark etc.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Thanks Wendy, I was just going through and looking for that article. Of course that study only supplements earlier studies such as Anderson's earlier work

                                (See Anderson, M. A. (1999). ORTHOPEDICS-Oral Chondroprotective Agents. Part II. Evaluation of Products. Compendium on Continuing Education for the Practicing Veterinarian, 21(9), 861-866.) that reviewed literature and agents and found very little benefit.

                                But it's an OLD article, too, and it's good to have more recent (albeit very small and limited) studies. I'm sure the research will continue to evolve. I do give injectible joint supplements, just because they're more cost-effective and seem to work better (anecdotal) for me.
                                Last edited by thatmoody; Jun. 8, 2013, 07:10 AM. Reason: formatting

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Would that be the Adeptus products?



                                  Originally posted by sevensprings View Post
                                  I've had great results using a chelated joint supplement. Got a STB who wore out the cartilage in his fetlock joint racing. He was 3 legged lame. Got xrays and vet said "Bute for life." I wanted to get him healthy so I opted for the supp and a wait and see approach. Put him on high therapeutic dose. In a year he was pasture sound. In a little more than 2 years he was riding sound. Now he maintains on the regular dosage and is happy and comfortable. I even galloped him on the trail and a friend played with running barrels on him.

                                  He did so well that I decided to try the human version. Bad knees that pop and crack and achiness getting up and down. Took therapeutic dose until one day I notice that my knees didn't need to be popped all the time and I was walking more fluidly. It actually felt like my stride was longer. Way cool! As long as I stay on the maintenance dose my body moves freely. If I stop for any length of time the creakiness returns. I hate taking the capsules but love the results.

                                  Bottom line might work, can't hurt.

                                  Comment

                                  Working...
                                  X