• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Conflicting diagnosis about navicular

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Conflicting diagnosis about navicular

    I have a young mare, 4 years old, that I raised. Started her under saddle last year and rode lightly. Turned her out for the winter. I started riding her again and she had a very slight lameness in her left front. Took her to a vet at an equine hospital. The vet blocked her heel and she was sound. He took x-rays and stated she had trauma induced navicular in her left front. The x-rays do not look that bad, but the vet stated they were horrible and suggested injections and nerving her in two weeks. I thought that was a bit of a rush. I took the x-rays to two other vets (one is a friend) and just said will you look at these and tell me what you think sort of thing. They saw some mild changes, but didn't see anything alarming. She came sound immediately with the injections and special shoeing. She rode for 8 to 9 weeks before going lame again. She responds to one gram of bute and will be sound for a couple of days. She is on a supplement, Duralatin, and Adequan. Her left leg is swollen in the upper area (right below the knee). Not sure what to do next. I cannot seem to get a direct quote on the cost of an MRI. I have read about Tildren, IRAP, and other therapies. Should I get a second opinion? What have you done? Thank you very much!

  • #2
    I would definitely investigate an MRI or ultrasound of her foot (if you have a skilled practitioner nearby) to look into a soft tissue injury/inflammation (some type of tear, navicular bursa inflammation or adhesion, etc). Ultrasound is much less expensive but you cannot see every structure in the foot as you can with an MRI. However, with a good practitioner it is often more than sufficient.
    Advising neurectomy off of x-rays alone is alarming. Even if this was a primarily bony issue, I'd want to make sure there wasn't also a soft tissue injury that would be worsened and trod around on.
    As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm not sure where you are located, but the MRI (including stay and every other extra little thing that comes with the MRI) was $3300 in MA for both fronts for my horse's navicular. Tildren was $1200.

      Saying to nerve the horse without trying other routes first is very premature of the vet. If you can do the MRI, it's recommended for navicular horses as "they" are finding many navicular horses have other soft tissue damage as well, namely deep digital flexor tendon damage where it comes into contact with the navicular bone, or impar ligament damage. We discovered avulsion fractures of both front navicular bones and impar ligament desmitis via the MRI. The fractures were undetectable via regular rads, though the bone degeneration was very clear.
      "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse..." ~Revelation 19:11

      Comment


      • #4
        If the swelling below her knee is new then I would start the whole lameness exam over again. I would go to a reputable clinic. If your horse still blocks sound to the low heal block then and MRI may be recommended.
        Last edited by Fharoah; Jun. 2, 2013, 02:49 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd be investigating the swelling below the knee. There is a decent chance that the current lameness has to do with that and not the navicular at all.

          Comment


          • #6
            Did she respond to the hoof tester?

            Comment


            • #7
              Sounds like there might be 2 problems at once here. Certainly would NOT nerve this horse at this point. As others have said, that is premature. You need to get a competent vet to find out what the deal is on the high swelling before you do anything else. That they can do w/ ultrasound. To get a better idea what is going on w/ the whole leg, you would need an MRI, which is spendy but better that than ending up w/ a permanently crippled horse...
              "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

              Comment


              • #8
                I would either send her straight in for the MRI ($1200-$1800 for one leg in a standing MRI) or I would have a better vet come out for another lameness exam, and ultrasound the new swelling below the knee. Maybe the lameness is coming from the suspensory now, and not the foot at all.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by fourmares View Post
                  I'd be investigating the swelling below the knee. There is a decent chance that the current lameness has to do with that and not the navicular at all.
                  Agreed. My mare had a series of lameness that was coincidental. She had an abscess on her front left that blew out her heel and had hit herself on her cannon from behind (we think) within a few weeks if each other. Sometimes it just dumb luck.
                  Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply!!!! This reinforces what I have been thinking.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you end up trying Tildren, it is much cheaper to do a regional perfusion instead of normal IV injections. We have done the regional perfusions several times on our old guy.

                      MRI prices vary a lot depending on if you get a standing MRI. Where are you located?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/

                        This woman is rehabbing horses with navicular type lameness. Her blog is fantastic. I learned a ton. The first thing you should evaluate is if your horse is having a heel first or toe first landing when she walks. If it is toe first then you have a place to start. Good luck and you should become an expert in navicular because you can bet that most vets are NOT!
                        “If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror be polished?”
                        ? Rumi






                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Before going to an MRI, I'd want to know what was going on with the swelling.

                          In any case I would be hesitant to nerve at this stage of affairs without an MRI.
                          Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                          Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My trainer has a horse who was diagnosed w/ navicular at 4 and he was told to nerve the horse right away and it would probably only have a year because it was so bad. He got other opinions and ended up instead taking the horse barefoot. Horse is now 10 or 11, just massive bodied, and schooling GP. While I respect vets and get their opinions, sometimes listening to your gut is the way to go.
                            Originally posted by Silverbridge
                            If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              MRI including full work up (blocking, lameness exam, ultrasound, overnight stay, radiographs) for me with GA was about $2500.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                What about your horses feet? Is this horse barefoot and has bee barefoot all her life? Or did you begin to have her shod after you started riding her? Or did you change farriers recently?

                                I bought a 3 yr old Morgan gelding who had gone thru a period of hoof neglect while he was growing up. He was a bit toed in but travels nice a straight. After I had begun riding him we got to the point where I decided to put front shoes on him. Inside of three months he came up lame in one front when circling to one side. He was vetted then I took him to a prominent No. VA clinic for another more extensive vetting. The told me that my then 4 year old Morgan after less than 6 months of riding had "navicular syndrome".

                                I took a good look at his feet, looked at the video I had taken of him before purchasing him and realized that the farrier had corrected his pidgeon toed front feet. While he was barefoot he was able to wear his feet back to his "normal". When shod the correction done by the farrier had full effect and lamed him. The farrier was doing a nice balanced trim but it was wrong for this horse.

                                What I'm suggesting is that many horses with "heel pain" or a navicular diagnosis have a trimming or shoeing problem.

                                chicamuxen

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X