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Another EPM / Orogin / Oroquin-10 / Levamisole post.... thoughts? ideas? suggestions?

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  • Another EPM / Orogin / Oroquin-10 / Levamisole post.... thoughts? ideas? suggestions?

    So my heart horse is battling a nasty case of EPM. We tried Marquis with almost immediate success, that we are now attributing to the use of Banamine for the first couple days (followed by Bute for a few days after) because that was the best she ever was on the Marquis (about 8 days in) before it didn't do squat for her. We switched her to the drug trial for Orogin (the new version of Oroquin-10 from Pathogenes lab) which she seemed to do well on. 3 weeks later, we had a neuro symptom relapse that seems to be caused by the inflammation since they had us put her on a 10 day dose of Levamisole and she was MUCH improved by day 2, able to have some turn out time by day 3. Fast forward a couple weeks and we're back on the Levamisole today after just 2 days being medicine free (she's still on SmartTendon, SmartTLC, SmartVitE, and 5,000 IU Elevate W.S. daily).

    I'm just looking for someone who has more experience with EPM than myself. This is almost 3 months that we have been battling this crap I'm just so sick of it. Even if she's just a pasture puff, I just want her to get better. We were doing so well that she was going back to work (very, VERY light 10 minute "hacks" where we walked up/down the "hill" for strength) after the Orogin, and now we're taking a few steps back. The Pathogenes lab had a couple more treatment options in mind for us - such as dosing with Quest and the Levamisole together, though I'm not sure of the exact dose. And then there is the possibility of re-checking her titers and treating with Orogin again.

    I'm thinking about ordering Uckele's Neuromune supplement for her, just to see if it would help. At this point, I'll try anything.

  • #2
    EPM is a long-haul diagnosis, with always the chance for backsliding, slow (or no) progress, and the prognosis is uncertain at best. Sometimes, sadly, just trying things one after the other (especially unproved things like supplements and "immune stimulators") makes us think we're doing something when we're not.

    It's a terrible disease, and one you simply can't rush along. It was the better part of 8-9 months before my best girl became stable and without visible symptoms, but even then she had residual deficits.
    Click here before you buy.


    • #3
      My horse is a year from his first episode with a very bad relapse after a month of treatment with the pyrethrin, sulfadiazine, trimethoprim or something like that I can never remember the name of. He was treated for 8 months with it - a daily dose of 50 cc. Cost about $150/bottle and the bottle lasted about three weeks. He looks perfect today. Vet said that he would rather not treat with the Marquis because he had never not had a relapse. My guy is still on 1000 IU natural vit E, selenium, msm. Be sure to use the natural Vite. I have found the tablets from Puritan's pride to be less expensive than the Elevate and easier to see that he has eaten them.


      • #4
        I just want to say I am sorry for your troubles with EPM
        I personally have had horses with it and understand the frustrations of not recovering fully and residual ataxia
        I have found a new treatment which we were the study farm for and it has had excellent success for EPM residual ataxia. It is Stem cell fluid that activates the stem cells of the horse to heal. my now 5 yr old is 100% normal and is doing great along with the other horses who have been treated in the study and outside the study. All horses were 2 to 4 on the mayhew scale.
        My horse was treated with Oroquin 10 and the diaconate powder became 100 percent at 60 days post then relapsed to about 60% normal. I was disappointed but had hope the VivaStem would help him, as I had seen it help other horses in many different ways. 60 day post VivaStem he was 100 % and continues to be.
        In the study 4 horses diagnosed with EPM were treated with Oroquin 10. One recovered fully- 3 recovered partly. As controls two of the partially recovered horses used the Levamisole for 6 weeks as per Dr Ellison’s protocol, neither improved significantly on levamisole.
        Both were then treated with VivaStem and both have recovered fully and are back to work with no relapse.
        The study indicated VivaStem not only helped with the inflammation of the Central Nervous System (what they use the Levamisole for) but also through other studies and this one indicated it’s capability to heal the damaged nerves.
        The horses have to be treated with a conventional drug to kill the protozoa and then when they relapse or stagnate in improvement that is when they were treated with the VivaStem stem cell fluid.
        30 days they were improved in neurological function, 60 days normal or near normal in neurological function, all were 90 day normal neurological function
        If you want to email me privately mariehorse@aol.com I can provide you and your vet with the study information and how to get it for your horse. The final research paper is currently being written. There is more information about stem cell fluid VivaStem at www.stemcellfluidtherapy.com and a short video of the study horses on the case study tab.
        VivaStem is in the beginning stages of FDA approval for EPM residual Ataxia.
        It has other effective uses but this is the area where they are seeking FDA approval.


        • #5
          Do you know what your horses crp levels were? I keep mine on vitamin E. After the treatments and about a month later I backed down on the high amounts to what's recommended and I also keep them on msm. High doses at first and then back down. My one guy did the levvamisole with the quest treatment and he is doing well. My other guy we did not do the levamisole afterwards and now about 3 months out we are doing it because his crp is high.

          The horse we did it on with quest was some of the highest crp levels dr.Ellison said she has seen. He was a 36 and then afterwards down to 0 and four months later still at 0. There was a possibility we would have to do the levamisole a few times and possibly in the future he may have to have it again if he test high again but he is doing well

          What I have found is my first guy was retired with epm, he recovered so well after this treatment (did Marquis and sulfa 2 years ago with no big change) that we started light riding him again, just walking around the ring, loose rein maybe 10 min. I noticed that he started to look better but he started to show some symptoms again. I stopped riding him and about a month later he was back to looking good and acting normal, crp level didn't change but something changed in him with the riding. I decided to let him be and stay retired and my pasture puff and he is doing great. I don't know if there was a stressor with riding him that set him off but that's the only thing I could contribute to the issue and ESP with it getting better after we stopped.
          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


          • Original Poster

            Rabicon, my horse's CRP levels were in the 20's. Based on her bloodwork, Dr. Ellison was not hopeful that she would survive - however, her clinical signs didn't match her bloodwork. She ended up having a really nasty case of gastric ulcers that we treated with 2.5 boxes of GastroGard, and are now doing daily maintenance doses of UlcerGard for 2 months as well.
            We did Quest after the first round of Orogin and she had a horrible neuro relapse, so we did another round of just the Decoquinate stuff (in addition to daily doses of Levamisole that we had compounded for us at a higher dosage than what Ellison provides). That seems to have gotten the remainder of the protozoa. From what I understand, her reaction to the Quest meant that there were still encysted protozoa. We also started her on daily dose Strongid C2X to try to avoid the de-worming complications.
            We just hit her with Quest again about 2 weeks ago and she had no neuro response to it, which made me happy. She still has periodic days of neuro symptoms when she irritates her lesion on the spinal cord (i.e. her main squeeze pasture buddy gets ridden and she can't see him while he's getting tacked up and trot/canters around squealing for him - she only does this once in a while, not sure what the deal is. Or if it's super muddy in her paddock, she has a hard time - basically anything that irritates the lesion and causes inflammation brings back the residual ataxia temporarily).
            Sorry I didn't update sooner, I must have missed this one.


            And for the Vivastem, before anyone considers this (misadvertised) product, I strongly suggest you read this thread: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...25#post7129325


            • #7
              I treated one with Marquis--did relapse 8 years later when he was 33! Well worth the money.

              Most recently I treated a different horse with the sulfa cocktail another poster mentioned. That was about 8 months ago and horse is doing really well. It was MUCH cheaper. I also supplemented with 4000 IU of vitamin E and folic acid.

              ETA--whoops I'm late to the party!!
              Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
              White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

              Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.


              • #8
                I have now treated a couple with the Oroquin. Both have done very well. I personally have had relapses/reinfection with the Marquis, so for the expense it is not my first choice.
                However I cannot speak to the long term as mine have both been within the last year.
                "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"


                • #9
                  Orogin for EPM - Help need information

                  Most recently I treated a different horse with the sulfa cocktail another poster mentioned. That was about 8 months ago and horse is doing really well. It was MUCH cheaper. I also supplemented with 4000 IU of vitamin E and folic acid.

                  I am new to this forum (searching for information) as my horse has just been diagnosed with EPM and we have started her on Orogin. How much folic acid did you supplement with?


                  • #10
                    How are your horses doing after the Oroquin? Any relapse?


                    • #11
                      Mine are all still doing well.
                      "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"


                      • #12
                        Thank you. I just started my mare on Orogin yesterday. Did you supplement with any vitamins?


                        • #13
                          they all get platinum performance
                          "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"


                          • #14
                            My vet started my guy on a new drug called Prozaquil or something along those lines. $700 or so for a 28 days 1 scoop a day treatment. He said he finds it works SO much better than Marquis. My guy was caught super early but he believes this will actually wipe it out completely since it was so early. He puts all EPM cases on this now. He had a SUPER neurological case go on it. Halted the EPM completely but unfortunately the residual damage was done. Hope your guy gets better soon!
                            "People who think their brains are not worth protecting are probably right!"
                            - quoted by Martha Drum