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New/Worms in poop, but no eggs on FEC?

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  • New/Worms in poop, but no eggs on FEC?

    Long-time lurker, but new to posting! Hello all!

    My mare pooped whole worms last Monday during a farrier appointment. Farrier pointed them out to me - gack! Gross! I brought one into the vet office who said that yes, it was a worm, and was probably a small strongyle.

    However, she had ZERO eggs on FEC done this morning. Not a single one. I even got to look in the microscope at a fecal with lots of eggs then look at my mare's poo. No eggs!

    Vet says this could happen if she was dewormed recently, but she was last done in March after her spring FEC, not recently. We are going to re-check her in a month to see if anything changes.

    Has anyone heard of this or had this happen?

  • #2
    Fecals don't show everything...
    Missouri Fox Trotters-To ride one is to own one

    Standardbreds, so much more then a harness racing horse.

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    • #3
      Are you sure they were worms she pooped out, and not worms/grubs/etc that migrated to the manure?

      Picture?

      Description?
      ______________________________
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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      • Original Poster

        #4
        I wish I had taken a picture!!

        The farrier was holding her hind foot when she pooped and he looked down and said "Your horse has worms in her poop." It was on concrete and I saw the poop come out of her so no way they migrated from anywhere.

        They were whitish/tan and about 2 inches long, tapered at each end, about as wide as a narrow eyeliner pencil (like the Clinique ones you can twist...this is all I can think of for how wide they are!). I have seen pinworms, and it was MUCH thicker than a pinworm.

        They looked like this: http://parasitology.cvm.ncsu.edu/qui.../quiznc2a4.jpg

        I poked through her poop this morning when I was getting a sample for the fecal and didn't see any in there.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cashela View Post
          Fecals don't show everything...

          And aren't small strongyles one of the ones they don't show?
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          • #6
            Strongyles, large and small, show on FECs. So do ascarids.

            What will never show are encysted strongyles - they are an encysted stage, not out and about as adults shedding eggs.

            Tapes will rarely show, so for all intents and purposes, assume they never show.
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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            • #7
              The picture sure does look like a strongyle - I re-read the OP and my apologies for having glossed over you saying you took the critter to the vet who said that

              When in March did you deworm? What did you use?

              I would certainly do a FEC now and see what you get. Is there a history of FECs for this horse? For a horse without a (known) history of FECs, if there is a clean one it's a good idea to re-check in a couple of weeks, since it IS possible to get a false clean.
              ______________________________
              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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              • #8
                I am never using eyeliner again.

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                • #9
                  What, and how much have you been deworming with?
                  Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                  Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

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                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by JB View Post

                    When in March did you deworm? What did you use?

                    I would certainly do a FEC now and see what you get. Is there a history of FECs for this horse? For a horse without a (known) history of FECs, if there is a clean one it's a good idea to re-check in a couple of weeks, since it IS possible to get a false clean.
                    I did double-dose Fenbendazole on March 1st after our Spring FEC (which showed approx. 100epg).

                    I had an FEC done last Saturday after the worms were seen the previous Monday, with 0epg.

                    She has another FEC scheduled in a month already.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by merrygoround View Post
                      What, and how much have you been deworming with?
                      I have been deworming my small herd (4) when indicated by the vet. Last year we wormed in October (ivermectin/praziquantel), and then again this March (double-dose fenbendazole).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        DD Fenbenzadole but not a PowerPac? If just the one dose, that is likely your issue. Lots of areas have worms resistant to Fenbenzadole. I would give Quest Plus now, if it were my horse.
                        Caitlin
                        *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                        http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

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                        • #13
                          Yep, not at all surprising there were still worms at this point. Fenbendazole is not a good choice for routine deworming - high, widespread resistance.

                          I wouldn't wig out about it. I WOULD hit him with Quest Plus right now though. Regardless of the fen not being effective for strongyles, it never would have touched bots or tapeworms.
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Well, my vet said to wait a month and we will do another FEC. She was the one who advised the double-dose fenbendazole, so I stick to her suggestions.

                            With my 4, nobody has ever had more than 50 epg in several years now that we've been doing FECs on them twice a year. Nobody goes anywhere, and they get rotated around 3 20+ acre fields.

                            We did Quest Plus in the fall, per vet suggestion. They've been getting wormed twice a year with whatever vet suggests.

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                            • #15
                              In the fall, did you do QP or Ivermectin/Praziquantel (Equimax/Zimectrin Gold) from a few posts ago? There is a difference. Equimax won't kill all stages of strongyles. And if that's what you saw...? Many, many vets aren't up on the latest research re:worming.
                              Caitlin
                              *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                              http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

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                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by RedMare01 View Post
                                In the fall, did you do QP or Ivermectin/Praziquantel (Equimax/Zimectrin Gold) from a few posts ago? There is a difference. Equimax won't kill all stages of strongyles. And if that's what you saw...? Many, many vets aren't up on the latest research re:worming.
                                Oops, thought quest plus had ivermectin, I didn't realize it was moxidectin. I knew it was a "dectin" and a "quantel," lol!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  If you saw worms but not eggs, just means they weren't shedding eggs at that point...

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by TigerTrick View Post
                                    Well, my vet said to wait a month and we will do another FEC.
                                    But why wait? This, right now (a bit past time for your location), is the time of year to clean things out so 1) you aren't dealing with tapes and bots that don't show on FECs and are a big problem where you live, 2) you aren't re-infecting the pasture, and 3) you minimize the infection rate from parasites that are "waking up" as the temperatures warm/warmed up.

                                    She was the one who advised the double-dose fenbendazole, so I stick to her suggestions.
                                    No offense meant, really, but this just proves her lack of knowledge on current parasite issues. Not even new issues - these have been issues for 10+ years now.

                                    With my 4, nobody has ever had more than 50 epg in several years now that we've been doing FECs on them twice a year. Nobody goes anywhere, and they get rotated around 3 20+ acre fields.
                                    That only means they are in the 80%+ population who can take care of most parasites pretty well on their own. FECs are not showing you tapeworms, not showing bots, and those are 2 major issues with horses. They also don't show some other things, like pinworms, but mostly they are more nuisances than anything.

                                    This isn't about horses coming or going, though that does help reduce the risks. Tapeworms come from mites which live inon the grass, and are eaten by the horse. Bots come from botflies. It doesn't take the horses going anywhere, or other horses coming in, for those to be a problem.

                                    We did Quest Plus in the fall, per vet suggestion. They've been getting wormed twice a year with whatever vet suggests.
                                    I would suggest QP in the Spring - moxidectin doesn't kill dung beetles, and they're quite active now. Use Equimax in the Fall.

                                    "with whatever the vet suggets" - if he suggests fenbendazole or pyrantel pamoate, than unless and until you have a FEC and a FECRT done to prove that either of those work, then s/he hasn't been doing you any favors in this regard.

                                    That's just the science of it all, it's not my opinion
                                    ______________________________
                                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by RobinL View Post
                                      If you saw worms but not eggs, just means they weren't shedding eggs at that point...
                                      You aren't going to see eggs in manure - they're too small, you need a microscope.

                                      If this worm was alive when it was pooped out, then it WAS shedding eggs. And where there is 1 pooped out, there are many, many more still in there.
                                      ______________________________
                                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                                      • #20
                                        JB, not really relevant to this thread except that it's about worms..

                                        My two horses are turned out together. They're the only two horses in their pasture. I did a FEC a couple weeks ago... the gelding came back 0, the mare 1400 . How does that happen???
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