• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Pentosan Question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Pentosan Question

    I have a mare who has been getting a 15 cc dose of Pentosan, one time per month. The dose size is per the Vet, she is big. I plan to ask the Vet this as well, but he does not have a lot of expierence with Pentosan.
    Would there be any advantage to dosing her weekly, rather than monthly..like say 5cc a week. When a dose is due I can tell and I wondered if this might keep the medication more consistently in her system. Thanks in advance for any thoughts :-)

  • #2
    How big is she? I would say dose her as often as she needs it but 15cc seems like a very high dose to me. The dose is normally 6ml per 1100lbs a week for 4 weeks during the loading period, then as often as the horse needs it after that, be that monthly, bi-monthly what have you.

    This is based on 250mg/ml.
    Last edited by BoyleHeightsKid; May. 2, 2013, 11:35 AM.
    Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
    Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
    "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

    Comment


    • #3
      That seems like a massive overdose, as is dosing way more then needed. If you are dosing as the manufacture recommends , your horse is around 2300 pounds? Is she anywhere near that?

      We tend to do 5ml for weanlings. Yearlings and up get 6ml. We generally do a course of 4 ( once weekly). Even when we do only one a month ( rare) it is still only 6 ml.

      As for weekly vs monthly: I was always under the impression that you needed to to do the first 4 shots weekly and then move to monthly shots if needed.

      P.
      A Wandering Albertan - NEW Africa travel blog!

      Comment


      • #4
        It's impossible to know if the dose is too much/too little/just right without knowing the drug concentration.
        Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

        Comment


        • #5
          If you are using the 100 mg/ml then that dose is right on for an average sized horse. If you are using the 250 mg/ml...yikes!

          IMO giving one third of the vet recommended dose more frequently is not going to be effective--it's kind of like giving a third of a vial of Adequan.

          FWIW my older competition horses get 6cc of the 250 mg/ml concentration weekly. I may skip a week if they aren't showing but for the most part they get it every week.
          Originally posted by EquineImagined
          My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.

          Comment


          • #6
            We just started Pentosan 2 months ago...did the loading dose of 6ml every 5 days for 5 shots, then have moved to bi-weekly. Makes a HUGE difference using it bi-weekly now. My trainer gives the horses in training a weekly shot - every Saturday morning.
            Heather
            Green Cove Springs, FL

            Comment


            • #7
              Need to know the concentration before you can comment on how much of a dose is 'too much' or 'enough'. But with the standard concentration of 250mg/ml that I buy, 15cc would be a WHOPPING HUGE DOSE and I'd worry about bleeding risk, not to mention worrying that the drug is simply being used inappropriately.
              Click here before you buy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hard to say without knowing horse's weight and pentosan concentration

                Recommended dose is 3 mg/kg. Most concentrations I have come accross are 250 mg/ml, though I have found 125 mg/ml.

                Average horse =500 kg so you want 1500 mg for that weight.
                (6mlx250 mg/ml=1500mg or 12mlx125 mg/ml=1500 mg).
                If your vet is using PentAussie or something similar and your horse is around 1500 lbs, 15 mls sounds about right, maybe even a little low.
                1500 lbs is approximately 700 kg
                (700 kg x 3mg/kg=2100 mg *recommended dose
                15ml x 125 mg/ml= 1875 mg *dose using 15 mls of 125 mg/ml)




                Research suggests that higher doses may be more effective.

                "PPS may not be sufficiently potent to demonstrate a clinical effect at the current dose of 3 mg/kg, which may be the reason many practitioners are recommending a higher dose of 6 mg/kg. Caution always should be used and attention to timing and dosage is important."


                http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm...ageID=3http://

                www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22533393

                Even if your vet is using 250 mg/ml and your horse is 1500 lbs that still puts the dose under 6mg/kg (about 5.5 ish mg/kg).

                I wouldn't be too alarmed. And I don't think breaking the dose up into 5 ml shots will give you any benefit at all

                Ask your vet about your concerns
                Last edited by nhwr; May. 2, 2013, 10:07 AM.
                See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  there's a study in dogs where they did 1 mg/kg, 3 mg/kg, and 5 mg/kg (once a week shots) and found the 3 mg/kg was most effective at relieving symptoms of arthritis, better than the higher dose.


                  there's this study of dosing in horses, showing the higher doses are more likely to cause adverse events:




                  Aust Vet J. 2001 Sep;79(9):624-7.

                  The effect of three different doses of sodium pentosan polysulphate on haematological and haemostatic variables in adult horses.

                  Dart A, Perkins N, Dowling, Batterham T, Livingston C, Hodgson D.


                  Source

                  The University Veterinary Centre Camden, Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences, University of Sydney, New SouthWales.


                  Abstract


                  OBJECTIVE:

                  To evaluate the effects of three different doses of sodium pentosan polysulphate (PPS) on haematological and haemostatic variables in adult horses.

                  DESIGN:

                  Eight adult standardbred horses were used. All horses received a single injection of 0, 3, 6, and 10 mg/kg of PPS at the beginning of each treatment week for 4 weeks so that by the end of the study all horses had received all four doses of PPS. Blood samples were collected at 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, 24, 48, and 168 h after each weekly injection of PPS. Variables measured were packed cell volume, haemoglobin, red blood cell count, mean corpuscular volume, mean corpuscular haemoglobin, mean corpuscular haemoglobin concentration, platelet count, white cell count, neutrophil count, lymphocyte count, eosinophil count, monocyte count, serum protein, fibrinogen, prothrombin time, and activated partial thromboplastin time (PTT). Data were analysed using an ANOVA. Significance was set at P < 0.05.

                  RESULTS:

                  There was a dose-dependent increase in PTT. A significant increase in PTT occurrred in all treatment groups when compared to horses receiving 0 mg/kg in which there was no change over time. The PTT values all returned to baseline by 48 h after treatment. The mean neutrophil count was higher 3 h after treatment when compared to time 0. Horses receiving 3 mg/kg of PPS had a higher lymphocyte count 4 h after injection, and those receiving 6 and 10 mg/kg had higher counts at 3,4,6 and 8 h after injection when compared to time 0. At 8 h after injection horses receiving 6 and 10 mg PPS had higher lymphocyte counts than horses not receiving PPS.

                  CONCLUSIONS:

                  PPS causes a dose-dependent prolongation of PTT in horses. At the dose rates currently recommended for treatment of joint problems in horses this increase was small and remained elevated from baseline for up to 24 h. Based on these findings doses of PPS up to 3 mg/kg should not be administered to horses within 24 h of high stress activities or where physical injury may occur.


                  PMID: 11702935 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rprincess73 View Post
                    We just started Pentosan 2 months ago...did the loading dose of 6ml every 5 days for 5 shots, then have moved to bi-weekly. Makes a HUGE difference using it bi-weekly now. My trainer gives the horses in training a weekly shot - every Saturday morning.
                    That's interesting. I've been doing every 2 weeks, and I have a horse who was not sound, and now she is sound, fluid, and almost too eager to go. (Which makes me happy, I just worry she'll overdo and injure herself; she's solid as a rock, so no worries otherwise.) It seemed like I was dosing more frequently that most, but I want her comfortable, and the expense is minimal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by katyb View Post
                      That's interesting. I've been doing every 2 weeks, and I have a horse who was not sound, and now she is sound, fluid, and almost too eager to go. (Which makes me happy, I just worry she'll overdo and injure herself; she's solid as a rock, so no worries otherwise.) It seemed like I was dosing more frequently that most, but I want her comfortable, and the expense is minimal.
                      I, and several people in my barn do it weekly so that the 250 ml/mg bottle doesn't expire before it is used up. It's made a huge difference in my horse so I don't mind the expense.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wendy, the risks sited in that study aren't huge or unmanageable, (which is not meant to encourage people to dose up). The only real concern is an elevated PTT for 48 hours post injection. But if pentosan is a heparinoid, that can be managed.


                        it is really encouraging to hear so many success stories about pentosan. My mare got her 2nd dose yesterday.
                        See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm aware of the possible risks, but they don't concern me really. The difference between lame and sound are too profound to play the what if game. It'd be different if the result were less impressive, maybe. If something made me feel that much better, I would certainly assume similar risks for that benefit.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My three that are on it weigh in at right around 1400# (on a scale). The vet told me to give them 10cc once a week for the loading dose then "as needed".

                            He did recommend that we give a dose the week of competition even if it's out of synch with the schedule.
                            Kanoe Godby
                            www.dyrkgodby.com
                            See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              just reading through all the post here and I noticed this
                              We tend to do 5ml for weanlings. Yearlings and up get 6ml. We generally do a course of 4 ( once weekly). Even when we do only one a month ( rare) it is still only 6 ml.

                              I'm curious; why are you giving pentosan to horses this young?
                              See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by nhwr View Post
                                just reading through all the post here and I noticed this


                                I'm curious; why are you giving pentosan to horses this young?
                                They are coming back from surgery ( chips, cysts etc). Vets have found that it helps them. I believe we have used Pentasan before surgery to see if that would resolve the problem, some success.

                                * Note : these are TB weanling, generally long weanlings, that will be prepped for the yearling sales hence surgery and not waiting to see if it resolves on own.

                                P.
                                A Wandering Albertan - NEW Africa travel blog!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by katyb View Post
                                  I'm aware of the possible risks, but they don't concern me really. The difference between lame and sound are too profound to play the what if game. It'd be different if the result were less impressive, maybe. If something made me feel that much better, I would certainly assume similar risks for that benefit.
                                  Agree. This stuff is AMAZING. The results are as good as the IA injections which IMHO are MUCH more risky
                                  I wasn't always a Smurf
                                  Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                                  "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                  The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Thanls for all the responses. The Pentosan I use is 250mg/ml, si I am a little confused. Sher is about 1400lbs. The risks are miniscule in comparision to the benefits that I have seen from using the product. It is awesome stuff.
                                    Not sure I want to consider lowering the dose, but wondering why she figured it so high and still wondering about a smaller dose once a week.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      My Vet appears to double the price and will not write a script, but I would still consder it a great value!!!

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        I spoke to the Vet today and he said he would not want to go lower than 15cc a month, but that there is no advantage to giving smaller does weekly. The weekly doses would not be high enough to be effective.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X