• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

WWYD: horse probably foundering but owner refuses to call vet UPDATE on #43

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Have John call the vet owner normally uses (if there is one !)
    If that is impossible, consult with a vet over the phone about dosage of Bute.
    If none of this can happen call animal control.
    Ice or cold hose feet and provide soft footing. Do you have Soft Rides you could loan John ?
    Thanks for dealing with this.
    http://sporthorsesnw.com/
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sport...01526589966216

    Comment


    • #22
      I haven't read all the replies but your first post.

      It sounds like the horse IS foundering, not "might be". That's a critical care situation.

      If the owner or BIL refuses to get the appropriate care from this devastating and painful condition...call animal control.

      I'm not sure why people tippy-toe around what the stupid owner thinks.

      Some critical situations with horses don't have the time to be handled "diplomatically".

      If animal control doesn't come or fails this horse, at least you can sleep at night knowing you did the right thing for the creature.

      BTW, if you are not a vet you are really setting yourself for liability by administering any medication to a horse that is not your own, without the owner's express written condition.

      Clearly you are in a tough situation. I don't envy you.
      www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
      "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
      Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

      Comment


      • #23
        [QUOTE=sid;6965475]I haven't read all the replies but your first post.

        I'm not sure why people tippy-toe around what the stupid owner thinks.

        /QUOTE]

        1. Just like everyone else eager to open their mouths but too lazy to read all of the posts. Sigh.

        2. People "tippy-toe" around because we now (unless you've been living under a rock somewhere) live in a HIGHLY litigious society. And unlike you, apparently, not everyone has a bank account to pay for a lawsuit.

        Comment


        • #24
          I think your only option is to talk to animal control. They may help they may not.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by JackieBlue View Post
            No. The vet is not bound by law to donate his or her time and materials. Many will offer a no charge euthanasia in dire circumstances, but they are not obligated by law to provide pro bono care for any animal.
            I was referring to the owner or caretaker not the vet.
            "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by candyappy View Post
              ...Looks like she is walking in the picture? ...
              I don't see a horse trying to walk, I see a horse that is presenting a STRONG founder stance...both front feet are camped so far out in front of her. It hurts me to just look at the picture.

              OP, I would call animal control and press to work with someone who has horse experience so they are familiar with the level of pain this horse is in, and the level of treatment required.
              "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
                I don't see a horse trying to walk, I see a horse that is presenting a STRONG founder stance...both front feet are camped so far out in front of her. It hurts me to just look at the picture.
                That is what I saw in that photo too, a very painful looking horse.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Failing to provide medical care is illegal but getting that enforced is hard to do like most other animal welfare laws. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Report it repeatedly until they are forced to at least come take a look. Often times having AC show up is enough to spark the uneducated into taking action.
                  McDowell Racing Stables

                  Home Away From Home

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I really don't have anything useful to add, but as far as what would I do? I would like to punch John's BIL in the throat when he gets back from his vacation. Or better, take him out in the pasture, break both of his feet, and leave him there so he has an idea of what he's putting his mare through.

                    I'm sorry, I know this isn't useful and I am not normally prone to violence. But neglecting a badly suffering animal just makes me see red.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Mara View Post
                      I really don't have anything useful to add, but as far as what would I do? I would like to punch John's BIL in the throat when he gets back from his vacation. Or better, take him out in the pasture, break both of his feet, and leave him there so he has an idea of what he's putting his mare through.

                      I'm sorry, I know this isn't useful and I am not normally prone to violence. But neglecting a badly suffering animal just makes me see red.
                      "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I would tell this friend that if he doesn't get treatment , you are no longer friends. You can't possibly continue to be a friend with someone who lets their horse stand in pain and does Nothing. Be blunt.

                        If he can't do the right thing, walk away. It's not going to change.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by princessfluffybritches View Post
                          I would tell this friend that if he doesn't get treatment , you are no longer friends. You can't possibly continue to be a friend with someone who lets their horse stand in pain and does Nothing. Be blunt.

                          If he can't do the right thing, walk away. It's not going to change.
                          Hey "Princess" - Uh, have you bothered to read the whole thread? The owner of the horse is NOT the OP's "friend". The OP's friend was just taking care of the horse while the owner was away. Whole different set of dynamics.

                          Why oh WHY do folks here insist on flapping their gums without taking the time to read the thread for comprehension??

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            UPDATE! Texted my friend "John" who said his BIL had shoes put on mare yesterday, don't know if radiographs were supposedly done or not. He says she's slowly walking around but still in pain. Ya think?!? (sorry, it's not my friend's fault, but can't help thinking this.) And what kind of half-assed farrier would be stupid enough to not realize a horse is foundering and then be willing to put them through the trauma of pounding shoes onto their feet?

                            Now I'm just plain effin' mad. The mare is not foot-sore. I tested her soles myself when I went over last week and ruled this possibility out. And her toes certainly didn't look trimmed too short. I offered my friend the rest of my bute powder to give to his BIL for the horse. He's going to swing by this evening and pick it up. When he comes by, I'll get a more in-depth explanation as to what's going on and see if I can influence things positively in any way. If nothing else, maybe I can offer to take the mare and then quietly have her euthanized. Just say I had the vet out, prognosis wasn't good, and this was most humane thing to do for her. I'd rather cough up the money for that than to have her suffer for an indefinite period of time.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              What an ass. I'm infuriated on the other end of a computer, I can't imagine how you feel through this.
                              "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Farriers using x-ray.

                                Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                                Never met a farrier that took radiographs. You need to walk away or call animal control, your choice.
                                The farriers at Rood & Riddle do. They are top of the line and are vets as well.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by FCFARM View Post
                                  The farriers at Rood & Riddle do. They are top of the line and are vets as well.
                                  Um, the farriers at Rood & Riddle are at a VET CLINIC! This farrier just shod a laminitic horse and per the information we have (only through our computers) doesn't appear to have offered much else in the way of support for an animal in pain.

                                  Can you recognize the difference in the two situations? Do you believe based on the information in this thread that the asshat owner of this mare uses a farrier that is also a vet? Please.

                                  I don't know a (good/reasonable/experienced) farrier that would 'treat' a laminitis horse without asking for a vet's participation.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    There are farriers whose approach to founder is to shoe with heart bar shoes with the theory that the upward pressure of the heart bar supports the coffin bone. For some horses it intensifies the suffering. My farrier went to a farriers' seminar where they put heart bar shoes on a foundered pony in a demo. He said the pony was in such intense pain and suffering so badly through and following the shoeing that he left. He couldn't watch.
                                    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      OP, I have to agree with those saying you need to call animal control. Let "John" know that tonight. This horse is suffering needlessly (and now at the hands of two incompetent people. That's not a farrier, that's an a**hat who doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground!). At least John, who doesn't know much, NOTICED she was painful and TRIED to help by calling you!

                                      That photo made me cry. What a sweet mare...so sad she has an idiot for an owner. She deserves better

                                      Add me to the list of those waiting for the owner to return home so we can punch him in the face and cause him physical pain!
                                      "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Without addressing the underlying issue for the founder, the shoes are a band-aid at best. It is really too bad that the farrier didn't put his/her foot down and refuse to do the horse without vet intervention. My farrier would have.
                                        I would call animal control. You may get lucky with a good correspondent. Good luck.
                                        As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by FCFARM View Post
                                          The farriers at Rood & Riddle do. They are top of the line and are vets as well.
                                          That would be a vet taking an xray who was also a farrier in my opinion. I would bet my house that the OP's farrier is not a licensed vet as well as being a farrier.
                                          McDowell Racing Stables

                                          Home Away From Home

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X