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What do you make of these lumps on my mare's belly? **UPDATE** Post #20

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  • What do you make of these lumps on my mare's belly? **UPDATE** Post #20

    I just recently noticed these lumps and have no idea how long they have been there. They begin just behind the girth groove, feel firm and do not seem painful. Anyone seen this before?

    FYI, there are NO FLIES OR BUGS right now (well, maybe a few finally came out today).




    Taken from between the front legs:



    Someone tell me this is normal and not another thousand-dollar mystery.

    By the way, they are not itchy or scabby -- the skin is not broken or blistered.
    Last edited by LarkspurCO; May. 8, 2013, 01:03 AM.

  • #2
    That looks really, really weird.

    If you press, does it pit? Do little indentations stay and then gradually fill back in? It looks like it *might* be pitting edema, which would NOT be a Good Thing.

    Or a weird presentation of pigeon fever? Totally bizarre time of year for that, though.

    Vet and bloodwork would be my next steps, I'm afraid. Not an emergency call, but I would want it done early this coming week. Maybe even a needle biopsy would be warranted?


    • #3
      Strange!!! Keep us posted on what happens, so bizarre! It almost looks like a chain of lymph nodes,but (I could be very wrong) I dont think peripheral lymph nodes are along the midline like that!


      • #4
        My first thought was pitting edema, too. Gravity could be pulling fluid to that point?


        • #5
          Has your horse had shots lately or have you noticed hives? Mine had a terrible case of hives after shots last year and some of the fluid drained to the ventral midline. It was similar in appearance to your pictures.

          I don't remember his being quite so regularly spaced but I also didn't look too hard because I knew what it was. It resolved in about two days.
          "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple” – Barry Switzer


          • #6
            Agreed with all above and not an emergency but I would get the vet out in the next few days.


            • Original Poster

              Thanks for the suggestions. I palpated her again and this doesn't feel at all like edema. The bumps feel solid and fibrous, as if they're part of a continuous cord with kinks or strictures in it as opposed to individual lumps or hives.

              She hasn't had any vaccines lately and nothing has changed about them in a week. She's not ill and not concerned about me messing with them.

              She is due for another scope of her guttural pouch, part of her most recent unsolved mystery. I guess I will call CSU tomorrow and make an appointment and ask them to look at it then (unless something alarming develops in the meantime).



              • #8
                Collagen granulomas from tack (pressure) or insects? If so, they should respond to steroid injection.
                "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen


                • #9
                  Has she ever had colic surgery or any other sort of surgery that would lead to an incision there?

                  I knew someone who had a horse who'd had colic surgery while young and as a teenaged horse, he began to have problems with the incision. I don't recall it looking like this, but perhaps there's something similar-ish going on?

                  If you'd ever like an alternative to CSU, I have a vet I like far better up here, with the equipment to scope your mare.


                  • #10
                    HERDA? I've seen some cases of HERDA that presented sooooorta like that, only on the back. Sorta. That's what jumped to my mind at the very first glance. After that...just...weird?

                    I agree with Simkie. That looks really, really weird.
                    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl


                    • Original Poster

                      Originally posted by Simkie View Post
                      Has she ever had colic surgery or any other sort of surgery that would lead to an incision there?

                      I knew someone who had a horse who'd had colic surgery while young and as a teenaged horse, he began to have problems with the incision. I don't recall it looking like this, but perhaps there's something similar-ish going on?

                      If you'd ever like an alternative to CSU, I have a vet I like far better up here, with the equipment to scope your mare.
                      No colic surgery. I am happy with the docs I've been working with at CSU, but if you by any chance are referring to Amy Jergens, I have met her and can see why you would recommend her.

                      Jenners, I am going to say no to the HERDA. I've never "herda" that but looked it up and -- ew -- that is truly strange.


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LarkspurCO View Post
                        No colic surgery. I am happy with the docs I've been working with at CSU, but if you by any chance are referring to Amy Jergens, I have met her and can see why you would recommend her.
                        Indeed! Keep her in your back pocket if you ever need a second opinion or anything. She just built a lovely clinic up here--full surgery suite and everything


                        • Original Poster

                          Good to know. Dr. Jergens took care of Fat Palomino's horse when he was sick with kidney failure. I went up to visit Champ and spent some time with her. I would not hesitate to consult her should the need arise.

                          I have a good every-day vet and dentist down here, and the lovely Dr. Bluhm and Thom (who I'll see tomorrow) up yonder for the special shoes, problem feet and backs and general lameness stuff. I avoid Littleton as much as possible after several bad experiences (though there are some good vets there). I've been lucky to have worked with some really good docs at CSU recently, both for this mare and my gelding.

                          As for lumpy mare, I wasn't able to get an appointment until May 23rd because of my work schedule and because I'm taking the two horses and wanted them to see specific vets. So, I will report back in a few weeks, unless I can squeeze in a visit to the regular vet in the meantime.


                          • #14
                            FWIW, Amy DOES venture down into Parker fairly regularly. I'm not sure if she gets into your neck of the woods, but she's got a far larger range than one would expect. I imagine the call charge is fairly beefy for the drive, but could be worth not having to haul all the way up here.


                            • #15
                              Ants gone wild.

                              Looks like ant bites. She may have laid down in ants somewhere. Happens.

                              Could also be wasps. Wasp nest or they attacked her.


                              • #16
                                Funky skin/hair/bump issues? Think it's just "fungus o'the day" or just stumped? Then consider Neck Threadworms AKA Onchocherca: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...d.php?t=155469


                                • Original Poster

                                  Whatever it is does not feel like a skin or fungus issue. The lumps feel like they're underneath the skin, not on or in the skin. There's no hair missing, no scabs and no itching. I can move the skin independently of the lumps.

                                  As I mentioned before, the bugs have not come out yet. We are above 7,000 feet and have been having an unusually cold spring with a series of cold and snow storms over the past several weeks. There have been no insects at all -- no flies, wasps, ants, spiders, etc.

                                  Sunday I did see a few house flies for the first time. Monday it was 80 degrees, then yesterday another snow storm came and the temperature dropped to 20 degrees last night. My blood is BOILING.

                                  My other horse saw one if his (many) vet on Tuesday. I showed the pictures to her and explained what it felt like. All she could say was "That is really weird."

                                  Now that it is warming up again, maybe I'll run the clippers over her belly and take another picture. She will be seen at CSU three weeks from today, so I will let you all know what they find, if anything.


                                  • #18
                                    Larkspur - if you were to go to the thread that is linked there, you will discover that it is indeed about lumps and bumps under the skin. In fact, it is about lumps and bumps along the horse's midline - caused by a particular parasite.
                                    Parasites that live in the horse have lifecycles and are influenced by lengthening days, temperatures and other environmental changes. Ones that are dormant become active and shed eggs, larvae, and other yucky things that then migrate through the horse's body.
                                    I actually felt the "worm" in the chest of a horse I owned. I thought it was old scar tissue - except that it moved and was sometimes there and sometimes not. It was not until I read about the DoubleDose Equimax thread that I realized what this tissue/ lump was. This was a horse that was kept in DEPLORABLE conditions before I bought him. After treating him, no more lumpy-stringy thingy in his chest. And... his midline dermatitis and lumps disappeared as did those on another "rescued" horse.


                                    • Original Poster

                                      Gabz, the link you didn't go anywhere -- was this the 3-million-page-long onchocherca thread? I think I read the first 20 pages about four years ago -- lol.

                                      I did go look at some articles with pictures of threadworms and all of them showed skin eruptions with itching, which she doesn't have. It's possible, but what I read did not fit with what I am seeing, so if that is the case it's an unusual presentation (and a very disgusting one to think about).

                                      I'm taking her and one of my other horses to the vet for dental work tomorrow and I will ask him look at it. I can certainly try the Equimax treatment now because she is due for worming anyway, but I will see what the vet thinks.

                                      And to Jackie Blue - I missed your post before. I guess granulomas are a possibility too, but these don't feel like the ones my gelding gets. We shall see.
                                      Last edited by LarkspurCO; May. 8, 2013, 12:52 AM.


                                      • Original Poster

                                        *** UPDATE ***

                                        Shelby saw the vet today for dental work. He looked at her belly, palpated and hemmed and hawed and said it felt like muscle tissue. He considered doing a needle aspirate but then got out the ultrasound machine instead.

                                        It is muscle. As for why it is bulging and lumpy, that is still a mystery, but he doesn't think it's anything to worry about.

                                        I will allow the vet at CSU to marvel over it in two weeks and offer her opinion and, if it's anything definitive or interesting, I will report back.