• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

IM injections, preferred location?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    My vets have even started giving all regular vaccines in the pecs as they seek to make as few neck-sore horses as possible. Horses will still (generally) walk around if a pec is sore, but many just won't put their head down to eat/drink if their neck is sore
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Simkie View Post
      Procaine penicillin, for example, will kill a horse if any of the dose slips into a vein.
      Not necessarily (or often) -- but it will cause a terrifying procaine reaction that can lead to horse or human injury.

      Comment


      • #23
        I pretty much exclusively give IM injections in the neck. Second preferred location is the pectoral muscle.

        I do not love the hamstrings, as my horse always seems to get extremely sore when he gets a shot there. He got his penicillin shots there (alternating sides every day) when he had a bad laceration, and he was extremely sore. He got his IM Strangles vaccination in the hamstring on Monday, and he is extremely sore and reluctant to even move his hind leg forward when walking (he does loosen out of it and was actually fine for a light ride today). I've always had the IM Strangles vaccination given in the neck previously, and he was fine with that. I think we will stick with that from now on...live and learn, I guess!

        Comment


        • #24
          Used to be neck, now pecs always. Two got very sore necks from Pentason and my vet told me to use the pec location instead. No more soreness. He also said if you are going to give it in the neck, give it lower down the neck - not necessarily in the triangle area.

          Comment


          • #25
            Like Deltawave I prefer the hamstrings. The neck is my second choice. The pecs seldom if at all. Those hind end muscles are big, and used a lot, the neck almost as good, Not much action, comparatively speaking in the pecs. I only knew one horse who wasn't a candidate for hamstrings, and he meant it.

            The purpose of withdrawing before injecting is to assure your self that you are indeed in the muscle, not a blood source be it venous or otherwise. It is not to prevent infection. It is to prevent having a horse in a heap at your feet, which is bound to make a lasting impression, I believe.

            Not only does the length of needle have to be considered but also its gauge. Most vets when supplying medication also dispense the appropriate needle. The average lay person wouldn't be expected to know the difference between a thin walled and a standard. Nor are they likely to be found at your average supply source.
            Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

            Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

            Comment


            • #26
              How is a thin walled needle more beneficial than a normal wall? Do you have a higher chance of it breaking off?

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                Wow, gumtree, that's a whole lot of misinformation in one paragraph.
                Opinions are like butts everyone has one. The majority of my posts are prefaced with “IMO” I apologize for not doing so with this one. Butt I suggest you do the same in all fairness. Or at least qualify you comments with reasons and back ground working with horses. Not the odd ones over the years but at a professional level. Even with 57 years of working with horses and as a Vet’s assistant perhaps I have been given/taught “misinformation”. I am always open and eager to learn more or be corrected in my understanding. I have learned a lot over the years but I know I don’t know everything. And never will. I have also learned there are a lot of vets as doctors who think they do but in the end were wrong. Perhaps that’s why malpractice insurance is so expensive.
                To satisfy those who feel the same as you and in all fairness I should have started with saying; 99% of pony clubbers, 4-H and hobby owners that will give IM injections it will be with medications that are perfectly suitable to be given in the neck. It is also the easiest and most comfortable for the average caretaker. The OP was asking about Adequan and that is where 99% will be given. And that is where 99% of vets will tell you to inject. IMO and experience.
                Are there IM meds that should be given in others parts of the anatomy absolutely. But the average caretaker should leave that decision to their vet. And or their instructions. The average caretaker should not be handed the meds to do so. The average caretaker should already know how to give IM or IV by being taught not by getting advise in a forum where 99% of the people that give advise hide behind a screen name with no link to their back ground nor qualifications. This is what I do for a living and I must being doing most things right because I have been in business for a long time. In a very competitive area.
                I ended my previous comments with “to each their own” and I end this one with the same, to each their own. Take what you want from it. Dismiss what you don’t.

                Comment


                • #28
                  My comment primarily was regarding the completely erroneous statement that when one draws back on a needle before injecting that one is seeking to prevent infection. That is not an "IMO" thing. That was just plain incorrect.
                  Click here before you buy.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by morganpony86 View Post
                    I actually know vets who don't recommend IM injections in the semimembranosus/semitendinosus due to the extremely thick fascia covering those muscles and their neighbors (biceps femoris, etc) in the horse. The thick fascia makes a highway for infections to travel deeper into the limb should they occur. Plus you have the danger of getting kicked, and the danger of hitting the sciatic nerve.

                    IMO, neck and pecs are my first stops. The only time I've done the semimem/ten is when I was giving penicillin injections and ran out of places in the front end.
                    You'd need a harpoon to hit the sciatic from the semitendinous/semimembranosus...
                    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by reay6790 View Post
                      How is a thin walled needle more beneficial than a normal wall? Do you have a higher chance of it breaking off?
                      A wider lumen without increasing the gauge. You can still use a 22 gauge on a substance that would require a 20.

                      I've seen needles bend, never break. I usually pop the needle in first, if the horse explodes there is no attached syringe twiddling around. Then the syringe can be quietly connected .
                      Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                      Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I prefer the neck, and have never had an issue with injections in the neck. The one time my horses got their vaccinations in the chest, they both developed fairly large lumps that remained for days. IMO, the chest has nowhere to drain to. They might still be sore after a shot in the neck, although I've never noticed any soreness, but any swelling is minimized because it can "drains" better (I'm sure there's a better way to describe that).

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Where lymphatic drainage goes is not a matter of opinion, but of anatomy. The pecs drain very well into the thorax and down along the chest/abdominal wall. They are, however, somewhat "touchy" muscles in some horses and the skin is relatively thin in that area. I've never felt comfortable doing shots in the pecs, but that doesn't mean it isn't a viable spot for some horses in the right hands.
                          Click here before you buy.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
                            You'd need a harpoon to hit the sciatic from the semitendinous/semimembranosus...
                            While I mostly agree, those 1.5" needles are pretty "harpoonish" to me, and if you have a small pony, you'd get pretty close, especially if you're injecting more towards the origins of the muscles. It's not outside the realm of possibility, hence why I prefer neck or pectorals, though as in my first post I have other reasons to prefer those locations as well.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              HOW does everyone give a shot? I've been squirting out a bit of the liquid for air bubbles but I hate losing any. Then I insert needle, pull back to check for blood, and slowly empty.

                              Last night I managed to get blood when I removed the needle so I felt pretty bad.
                              http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Click image for larger version

Name:	thigh.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	20.0 KB
ID:	9135975You'd have to come close to striking the caudal aspect of the femur..
                                "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                                  HOW does everyone give a shot? I've been squirting out a bit of the liquid for air bubbles but I hate losing any. Then I insert needle, pull back to check for blood, and slowly empty.

                                  Last night I managed to get blood when I removed the needle so I felt pretty bad.
                                  By no means am I an expert shot giver, lol - but here are some tips;

                                  flicking the syringe with your finger can make the individual bubbles in the syringe come to the top. Then with the needle off, I push a tiny bit the get any excess air out. I try not to actually squirt any liquid out. If there's a tiny bubble it's not going to kill your horse! With more practice, you'll get the hang of it.

                                  I personally put the needle in separate from the syringe because of personal preference and in case they move around or are startled (which hopefully doesn't happen anyway!), then connect the syringe, I prefer luer lock needles & syringes - just my preference. Then draw back to see if any blood comes in the "hub" of the needle. If not, push slowly and consistently and withdraw needle. I rub or massage the area for a few seconds.

                                  If you didn't see blood come into the hub of the needle when you pulled back, but did see some blood with you withdrew the needle after injection - it could because you hit a vessel or capillary? when injecting the needle. But as long as there is no blood coming into the hub when you pull back you should be fine. Also make sure to not move the needle between pulling back & injecting.

                                  I normally do the neck & pecs. I have sensitive ones and I've always been to leery to do the hamstrings.....

                                  There are also a lot of vids on youtube demonstrating, if you find that helpful

                                  http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...be.2wRtYvxg0eY

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I do the neck, but try not to give more than one shot per side if I'm giving more than one. I like it because it is easy to find and have yet to have a horse get real sore or infected - knock on wood.

                                    Agree with everything in the above post except I to a solid tap-tap with my knuckles at the injection site, then pinch up a bit of skin and insert the needle near my thumb by the pinched skin. I find this surprises them a bit less than just popping it in there, but is easier than easing it in for the sensitive types. Draw back, push in steadily, then pull the needle out and inspect for blood or it being bent, etc.

                                    Never done the hamstrings, and don't plan to. Might do the pecs sometime, but my horses have always been very flexible, and I don't want to find out what the business end of their hind leg feels like!

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Trouble is I must read too much COTH because I'm convinced my horse is going to drop dead every time I give her a shot.
                                      http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X