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Drips from IM bottles

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  • #21
    Medroxyprogesterone (Depo Provera). It's like cement and you can't draw it up with a smaller needle. Or well you can but you will find your drawing off the liquid and not getting an even mixture of the suspension and by the end of the bottle you just have the powder/cement/active drug left and no diluent. AKa: you screwed up.

    I have always had to use that sized needle but this is the first time the vial has been leaking so quickly - after years of using this/doing it this way.

    Comment


    • #22
      Is it more liquid-y if you warm it up a little?
      Click here before you buy.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by rockfordbuckeye View Post
        Medroxyprogesterone (Depo Provera). It's like cement and you can't draw it up with a smaller needle. Or well you can but you will find your drawing off the liquid and not getting an even mixture of the suspension and by the end of the bottle you just have the powder/cement/active drug left and no diluent. AKa: you screwed up.

        I have always had to use that sized needle but this is the first time the vial has been leaking so quickly - after years of using this/doing it this way.

        We use a 19g 1.5'' for Depo...no issues ever. I just gave a shot yesterday.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by reay6790 View Post
          We use a 19g 1.5'' for Depo...no issues ever. I just gave a shot yesterday.
          Congratulations. They must be dispensing cement just to me becuase I'm special.

          Comment


          • #25
            If your Depo is that thick, I'd be questioning how it's compounded. I use Depo for myself and the diluent does separate in the vial but a good shake takes care of that. I use a 22g needle for drawing out of the vial and injection, no resistance due to a smaller gauge needle. The concentration is 150mg/mL.

            Perhaps a different pharmacy might compound the drug with a different base so it's not so thick?

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            • #26
              Originally posted by deltawave View Post
              I will spare everyone the ridiculous lengths I go to to maintain the "best possible" level of safety for my multi-use bottles. Let's just say it involves a lot of alcohol
              there goes my zinfandel
              Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

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              • #27
                I used to have to take progesterone in oil shots when I was doing IVF. That was some thick stuff but we still used a 19 ga. needle. Warming it up definitely helped. It was compounded, too! My own F-I-L was the pharmacist -- felt pretty safe.
                Click here before you buy.

                Comment


                • #28
                  I also use a 22 gauge needle for my depo shots...Shake very well and then draw, never have a problem with leaking....

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by rockfordbuckeye View Post
                    Congratulations. They must be dispensing cement just to me becuase I'm special.
                    Who compounds it? We use US compounding.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I used a 1x22g today...it was no bueno. I will stick with my 20. He shook his neck and I managed to bend the little needle.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by reay6790 View Post
                        I used a 1x22g today...it was no bueno. I will stick with my 20. He shook his neck and I managed to bend the little needle.
                        Did you switch to the smaller gauge for the comfort of your horse or for leakage issues from the stopper?

                        Using the smallest gauge possible while drawing up the med from a multiuse bottle pokes the smallest hole in the stopper, hopefully compromising it the least. You can always swap out to a larger gauge needle to actually inject the horse if the smaller won't work for whatever reason. Swapping out actually is advised, because the sharpness of the needle is drastically reduced each time it's used, whether the use is through a rubber stopper or through skin. I used to have a page that showed electron micrograph images of needles--fresh, one use, two uses, etc, and they were pretty impressive!!

                        Not a bad idea at all to use one needle to draw up the med (the smallest that is effective) and another to inject the horse (again, the smallest that is effective.)

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Simkie View Post
                          Did you switch to the smaller gauge for the comfort of your horse or for leakage issues from the stopper?

                          Using the smallest gauge possible while drawing up the med from a multiuse bottle pokes the smallest hole in the stopper, hopefully compromising it the least. You can always swap out to a larger gauge needle to actually inject the horse if the smaller won't work for whatever reason. Swapping out actually is advised, because the sharpness of the needle is drastically reduced each time it's used, whether the use is through a rubber stopper or through skin. I used to have a page that showed electron micrograph images of needles--fresh, one use, two uses, etc, and they were pretty impressive!!

                          Not a bad idea at all to use one needle to draw up the med (the smallest that is effective) and another to inject the horse (again, the smallest that is effective.)
                          I decided to try the 22 for the comfort of the horse. I don't know if the issues had to do with the aluminum hub or not...I've never used one before. I do usually switch out needles.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            What about drawing off all dosages at once? Would that be safer in the long term instead of repeatedly breaching the safety seal?

                            For instance: say a person knows they will be using 10 5ml doses out of a 50ml bottle over the course of 3 months. Rather than stabbing the bottle 10 times over 3 months, would it be more sensible just to draw all 10 doses at once and then store the loaded syringes until needed?

                            A friend suggested this to me recently while having the same conversation about multi-dose bottles. I wanted to agree with my friend but I felt as if I were missing something obvious.
                            Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              If you did that under a sterile hood and then kept the loaded syringes in a sterile environment, without light exposure (if the drug is light sensitive) and at the proper temperature you'd be OK.

                              The risk of contamination is SMALL, but measurable, if one is drawing up drugs in a non-sterile environment. Probably moreso given the place we all normally do it--in the aisle of a BARN.

                              And the "seal" on a capped needle is not as germ proof as an intact rubber seal on a vial of medication. Sooner or later, germs are getting in there.
                              Click here before you buy.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                That reminds me o the time I did the 10 day Tildren (which did nothing, surprise) and the tech handed me 10 syringes and needles filled with it. This stuff you had to reconstitute before administering. I just stared at her and said "are you serious??" I wasn't about to pay hundreds of dollars for the stuff to go bad or get contaminated. I have a feeling she got in big trouble for wasting it because I made her give me a new box where I could reconstitute and draw up the meds daily.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I used to have the same leaking problem with the 100 ml vials of acetyl-d from Wedgewood. Our vet was concerned about contamination and was reluctant to sell them to anyone who had one single horse - if you had several horses that you were injecting regularly, she'd sell you the 100 ml bottle with a lecture and a handout on drawing it up safely. If you only had one horse, she strongly encouraged the single use or smaller multi-use bottles. She wanted you to use it up as quickly as possible once you broke the seal.

                                  Delta, I like the idea of the sterile glove inside the ziplock - will have to remember that one. We stopped using acetyl-d because I wasn't very good about keeping to the schedule and ended up throwing out half a bottle that was past its date - dumb, expensive mistake.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Does a brandy-new ziplock bag constitute as a sterile environment?
                                    Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by buck22 View Post
                                      Does a brandy-new ziplock bag constitute as a sterile environment?
                                      No.

                                      Clean, yes, and better than nothing, especially in a dusty barn, but not sterile.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Needle technique

                                        There is technique to successfully enter vials without chopping out hunks of rubber or making it leak.

                                        The end of the needle is a bevel...like it was sliced on an angle.
                                        Make sure the bevel it pointed up before you then put the syringe vertical and enter the vial. I would definitely enter the vial with a smaller gauge needle (which is the bigger #) (probably no more than 20g). 16 is huge and 18 is pretty big. I would not leave a needle in the vial for further uses.

                                        Deltawave's storage idea is a good one.

                                        Susan

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Kyrabee View Post
                                          There is technique to successfully enter vials without chopping out hunks of rubber or making it leak.

                                          The end of the needle is a bevel...like it was sliced on an angle.
                                          Make sure the bevel it pointed up before you then put the syringe vertical and enter the vial. I would definitely enter the vial with a smaller gauge needle (which is the bigger #) (probably no more than 20g). 16 is huge and 18 is pretty big. I would not leave a needle in the vial for further uses.

                                          Deltawave's storage idea is a good one.

                                          Susan
                                          If the needle is vertical with respect to the stopper, what difference does it make where the bevel is?
                                          "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                          ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

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