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Pentosan, Legend or Adequan ???

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  • #81
    I may be wrong here, not being well versed in legal matters, but pentosan isn't approved by the FDA for use in treating horses or dogs, right? which is one reason why some vets may be reluctant to prescribe it. But since it's not approved, and it's not illegal for any reason, there is no reason why it can't be sold in the US without a prescription. In fact, it's rather odd that these pharmacies require a prescription for it. Or maybe it's illegal to sell it at all because it's not approved? the FDA has a little ranting page about unapproved animal medicines being sold, but it doesn't say outright they are illegal.
    Last edited by wendy; Apr. 30, 2013, 01:14 PM.

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    • #82
      My 19yo schoolmaster came to me with a history of stifle issues. I started him on an oral supplement and had his hocks and his left stifle injected. For a year, he was "serviceably" sound. During that year, we also did the Adequan and Legend thing. Over this past winter, he needed more injections which did not improve his soundness. I thought it was going to be time to retire him permanently.
      Because retirement wouldn't really work well for this horse, we decided to try him on Pentosan. I did a 6.5ml shot of 250mg/ml (I think) pentosan once every 5 days for a month. Within 2 weeks, I had a sound horse! During that time, he was also on bute to try to reduce the inflammation in his joints.
      He has now been off bute for a month or more. He was sound until last Friday when he was just "serviceably" sound. He was a few days out from being due for his once a month Pentosan shot. So, I gave him his pentosan. I rode last night and he was getting better!

      Mocha did so well on it that I started my 12 yo dog on it for his spondylosis of the spine. He was starting to show improvement too (alas, he blew his one good knee out in spectacular fashion and had to be put to sleep two weeks ago so I can't tell if it would have continued to be helpful)

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      • #83
        It isn't approved for horses and dogs in the US, but it is approved for horses in Australia and (in oral form) for humans in the US. Both by prescription.

        Two separate issues there: prescription vs. OTC and approved or non-approved. It is entirely OK to use drugs off-label by a veterinarian's order, if the drug is approved in any form and otherwise available. I also am not very well-versed on all the legal subtleties, but there is nothing inherently "illegal" about prescribing pentosan the drug. The compounding vs. "brand name" issue is separate.
        Click here before you buy.

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        • #84
          for human drugs/medications, the FDA goes after the manufacturer/marketer of the unapproved drugs and hits them with hefty fines and stops them from selling the drug- because it's illegal. See some here: http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/GuidanceCom.../ucm238675.htm

          but for animal drugs, all they say is this:
          http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/...gs/default.htm

          note they do use the "illegal" term: animal drugs illegally marketed in the United States that have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

          Comment


          • #85
            But Pentosan *is* FDA approved in the US . . .
            Click here before you buy.

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            • Original Poster

              #86
              good article on pentosan, including historical use outside US and discussion of risks

              http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm.../detail/775273
              See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

              Comment


              • #87
                Nice article. Wish the author didn't constantly (mis)use the term "thrombolytic" when "thrombotic" or "antithrombotic" were more correct. But that's a total clotting weenie nerd quibble. Also wish he'd been a LOT more generous with citations in the form of a real bibliography. Still a good bit of info--thanks.
                Click here before you buy.

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by Discobold View Post
                  Maybe I'm overly suspicious, but has anyone else noticed that horsecatcher joined the forum the same day davistina67 was banned?
                  I logged in specifically to "like" your post...

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    can you replace Legend with Pentosan? I dont see much difference in my OTTB with the Legend and its expensive..

                    We were using it more as a preventative as he raced quite a bit.. would pentosan be a good substitute?
                    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      I'm new here and I just found this thread. It has some awesome information...thank you so much.

                      My event mare has acute osteoarthritis as the result of an old injury (before I got her) in her left front fetlock. It was first diagnosed in 2008 and she has been on Legend since then. She had the joint injected immediately after the initial diagnosis and then we did the loading dose for Legend (1) 4ml shot 1/week for 3 weeks. Since then she has been on one shot every 8 weeks. This course of treatment was effective up until about a year or so ago. At that time, I started noticing that she seemed to be "off" more and more in that left joint. So I (at the vet's suggestion) started giving her the Legend shots once every 6 weeks and then once every 4 weeks but it hasn't helped. In January, the vet injected the joint again (2nd time in 4.5 yrs). This seemed to help for about a month, and then it was back to the same.

                      I've talked to my vet about other options, but he is very hesitant to take her off the Legend...he prefers it for arthritis in the fetlocks and back and thinks that Adequan is more effective for the knees, hocks, and stifles. He prefers Polyglycan as a surgical lavage only and won't write Rxs for that.

                      In February, I had someone recommend that I look into the Pentosan (I'd never heard of it), so I started researching it and have been for the past few months. I really liked what I found out about it...seemed to have very good results and very little side effects and risks. So, I talked to my vet about it and he will not prescribe it...not even the PentAussie available here in the states.

                      My mare is 13 and has no other issues, so I am very hesitant to "retire" her now. I feel like there has to be something else that can be done to treat this. She is also on an oral joint supplement, MSM, and has equipak and aluminum shoes on the front. So, I decided to order the Pentosan anyway. I got it straight from Australia from horsemedsonline.com. If it works, I will probably try a new vet that is willing to prescribe it for my mare as I would be more comfortable doing that. It arrived a lot faster than they said it would (in 10 days vs 30 days they said). So I'll start her on it in June as I had just given her the last Legend shot I had last week thinking it would take 30 days for the Pentosan to arrive. I have my fingers and toes crossed and will say many prayers that it will have the same results for her as it ahs for so many others.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by myhorsesibylla View Post
                        I'm new here and I just found this thread. It has some awesome information...thank you so much.

                        My event mare has acute osteoarthritis as the result of an old injury (before I got her) in her left front fetlock. It was first diagnosed in 2008 and she has been on Legend since then. She had the joint injected immediately after the initial diagnosis and then we did the loading dose for Legend (1) 4ml shot 1/week for 3 weeks. Since then she has been on one shot every 8 weeks. This course of treatment was effective up until about a year or so ago. At that time, I started noticing that she seemed to be "off" more and more in that left joint. So I (at the vet's suggestion) started giving her the Legend shots once every 6 weeks and then once every 4 weeks but it hasn't helped. In January, the vet injected the joint again (2nd time in 4.5 yrs). This seemed to help for about a month, and then it was back to the same.

                        I've talked to my vet about other options, but he is very hesitant to take her off the Legend...he prefers it for arthritis in the fetlocks and back and thinks that Adequan is more effective for the knees, hocks, and stifles. He prefers Polyglycan as a surgical lavage only and won't write Rxs for that.

                        In February, I had someone recommend that I look into the Pentosan (I'd never heard of it), so I started researching it and have been for the past few months. I really liked what I found out about it...seemed to have very good results and very little side effects and risks. So, I talked to my vet about it and he will not prescribe it...not even the PentAussie available here in the states.

                        My mare is 13 and has no other issues, so I am very hesitant to "retire" her now. I feel like there has to be something else that can be done to treat this. She is also on an oral joint supplement, MSM, and has equipak and aluminum shoes on the front. So, I decided to order the Pentosan anyway. I got it straight from Australia from horsemedsonline.com. If it works, I will probably try a new vet that is willing to prescribe it for my mare as I would be more comfortable doing that. It arrived a lot faster than they said it would (in 10 days vs 30 days they said). So I'll start her on it in June as I had just given her the last Legend shot I had last week thinking it would take 30 days for the Pentosan to arrive. I have my fingers and toes crossed and will say many prayers that it will have the same results for her as it ahs for so many others.
                        Did the Pentosan vial have the NatureVet label on it, or a generic label on it?

                        I was just a bit suspicious of that website, so wondering....

                        It is a heck of a lot more expensive than the compounded Pentosan, but if it's directly from NatureVet, I would be more inclined to get that than compounded.

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by NorCalDressage View Post
                          Did the Pentosan vial have the NatureVet label on it, or a generic label on it?

                          I was just a bit suspicious of that website, so wondering....

                          It is a heck of a lot more expensive than the compounded Pentosan, but if it's directly from NatureVet, I would be more inclined to get that than compounded.
                          Yep! It has the Nature Vet (Ceva brand) on the label and the little NV with the kangaroo logo too! It wasn't too, too bad price wise, but shipping was $50 so that stung a little.

                          The Horse Prerace had it cheaper with much cheaper shipping, but that's the website that gave me a bad vibe. I read several not so great reviews about it too...people not receiving what they ordered or the orders were incorrect, and they couldn't get anyone to return their calls or emails. A couple of people even said the phone number was disconnected when they called. That's why I ended up going with horsemedsonline. Thus far I'm pretty happy....got exactly what I ordered and its indeed the name brand (Nature Vet) and got it much faster than expected.

                          I'll give an update as to how she does on it! Fingers, toes, eyes...all crossed

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                          • #93
                            So my vet tells me that Pentosan was removed from the FDA approved list this week. What RX are you using if you are having success?

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by ultimateshowmom View Post
                              So my vet tells me that Pentosan was removed from the FDA approved list this week.
                              What does this mean? Can it still be prescribed? My vet was here this week, and just ordered Pentosan for me (well, technically for my horse!), supposed to be drop shipped direct to me. No mention of any issue.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Originally posted by ultimateshowmom View Post
                                So my vet tells me that Pentosan was removed from the FDA approved list this week. What RX are you using if you are having success?
                                Nothing on the FDA website mentions this. For a drug to have FDA approval revoked would be a colossal thing.
                                Click here before you buy.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  When I went to horsemedsonline.com and looked at the pentosan page, there was a very informative video with Australian vets and included a "how it works" section. I've been considering this for my senior gelding and just may give it a try if my vet will write a scrip for the compounded formula or if not, order from this website.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Pentosan isn't FDA approved in the US I thought? Pentaussie is FDA approved as a surgical lavage but it is not the same drug as Pentosan because of the added acetyl d glucosamine. Your vet may be misinformed?

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Pentosan isn't FDA approved in the US I thought?
                                      Yes it is, in oral form for human use for a disorder called interstitial cystitis. This allows (as with MANY other drugs) the off-label use of the drug, even in another form and in another species, by a licensed practitioner.

                                      Using "joint lavage" products as injectible drugs is a similar off-label use, or (depending on your view) another way to dodge the strict FDA approval process for bringing a new drug to the state of approval.
                                      Click here before you buy.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by LookinSouth View Post
                                        Pentosan isn't FDA approved in the US I thought? Pentaussie is FDA approved as a surgical lavage but it is not the same drug as Pentosan because of the added acetyl d glucosamine. Your vet may be misinformed?

                                        You are correct. Pentosan isn't FDA approved for equine use in the US. PentAussie is approved and it can be written (off label I believe) as an IM or IV injection (can't remember which one). However, it is NOT the same as Pentosan. It contains Pentosan (at 125mg/ml) and N-Acetyl Glucosamine together. The Nature Vet (Ceva) Pentosan is at 250mg/ml, so a much higher concentration, which is probably why it seems to be much more effective than the PentAussie.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by myhorsesibylla View Post
                                          You are correct. Pentosan isn't FDA approved for equine use in the US. PentAussie is approved and it can be written (off label I believe) as an IM or IV injection (can't remember which one). However, it is NOT the same as Pentosan. It contains Pentosan (at 125mg/ml) and N-Acetyl Glucosamine together. The Nature Vet (Ceva) Pentosan is at 250mg/ml, so a much higher concentration, which is probably why it seems to be much more effective than the PentAussie.
                                          Well actually the dosage of Pentosan Polysulfate in PentAussie works out to be the same as the Pentosan from nature vet that is 250mg/ml because PentAussie is dosed at 12ml versus the 6ml that Pentosan is dosed at. Therefore, both products deliver the same amount of Pentosan Polysulfate. I have not heard or read anywhere that Pentosan from nature vet is any more or less effective than PentAussie OR the 250mg/ml Pentosan compounded from Wedgewood.

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