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Where did my thread go? About needing help applying eye ointments????? It's gone

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  • Where did my thread go? About needing help applying eye ointments????? It's gone

    A few of you had replied to me, the thread is now nowhere to be found! I had posted it about 30 minutes ago, titled "Help, difficulty applying eye ointment to injured eye"

    ???????????????
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

  • #2
    Here:

    http://underdev02.chronofhorse.com/f...njured-eye-%28

    Any thread created while we were on the underdev02 board has gone poof since we've gone back to the real board. Annoying :P

    (Replies there also won't come here, so if you want to continue your thread, you're either going to have to recreate it over here, or wait to see what the mods say about the split.)

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      So it's gone for good? I'm confused
      "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        This is ridiculous
        "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

        Comment


        • #5
          Ridiculous? Frustrating, sure, but ridiculous?

          It's not hard to use the multiquote option to essentially copy your post and all the replies and bring it over here. Here, I'll even do it for you:

          Originally posted by Iride
          Subject: tall, resistant horse with scratch and ulcer in eye....who likes to throw his head high and around when it's eye ointment time...which is 4 times a day at the moment.

          Yeah, the kind in a tiny METAL TIPPED tube...what sadist designed these eye meds this way???

          Forget any tried and true methods of using the tube sideways, holding the eye open a certain way, or the use of a 1cc syringe to squirt the ointment in.

          My question is, can I just use a gloved finger to smear the ointment onto the inner corner of his eye? This I am sure I can do while he's on the crossties. As soon as a tube is involved, forget it.

          I realize there is a risk of contamination from smearing it on, and I realize I would ideally "drop" the ointment from the tube onto my finger so as not to contaminate the tune with human skin.

          But before I go and try it, I'm looking for yesses that I can do the gloved finger/inner corner method safely.

          The only other solution would be to get a lavage catheter attached, or, tranq the horse but there's no way I want to tranq any horse 4 times a day

          Thanks for any advice.
          Originally posted by JLR1
          I preferred the gloved finger method as well. Not because of head flinging, but because I was certain I would poke her eye out with my bad aim I feel like it keeps the ointment tip more sterile this way too. Jingles for your horse's speedy recovery.
          Originally posted by Iride
          Thank you JLR1
          Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
          I have used the finger method countless times over the years with no issue. With or without a lip chain.
          Originally posted by ryansgirl
          Personally I'd have the SPL system (subpalpebral lavage) put in. My mare had a corneal ulcer from hell (melting - required 4 days in the hospital) - the eye specialist immediately put in the SPL since she was being treated every hour for the first 24 hours then every two hours, etc. When I brought her home I had to treat her for another 6+ weeks four times a day - the SPL made things so much easier!!
          Originally posted by Iride View Post
          Laurie, thanks. Prefer no lip chain but I'll keep it in mind.
          Ryansgirl, since it's only 4x/day (as opposed to the dreaded hourly or every 2 hour regimen) I was hoping to avoid the SPL. But it is an option.
          Originally posted by Iride
          Here's another question, if I may hi-jack my own thread:

          The opthomologist prescribed Atropine DAILY for at least a week.

          I am really, really worried about so much atropine... while I realize it helps with pain and scarring, I do know that it can cause colic (due to the slowing of gut motility/nervous system affect) not to mention, it keeps an eye dilated for days sometimes weeks from just ONE application. So why would a horse need it repeatedly?

          Has anyone else been told to administer Atropine every day for a specific period of time? Did you do so?
          Originally posted by csaper58 View Post
          Ihave done this too. Wash hands befor picking up tube, wipe finger with alcohol, put a dolop of med on finger wipe med in corner of eye. Eye injuries are unspeakably painful so be understanding. Atropine dialates the pupil and helps with pain, as does keeping horse in the darkest place possible. The best NSAID for pain is banamine. Your horse should be on some sort of pain managment, to stop him rubbing the eye and making the ulcer worse. And only use antibiotic with NO steroid. Jingles.
          Ask vet, why Atropine every day? We usually do one drop, once every other day. Don't think you have to worry about slow gut with drops, I think that is IV Atropine. If worried wet hay and food with warm water.
          Originally posted by Iride
          csaper58... thx. Yup he is on Banamine 2x/day. The ointment contains no steroid as this is an ulcer issue.

          Fyi I was told by the vet to NEVER to use alcohol to clean anything (finger, instrument, tube) that is going near an injured or "sick" eye. Extremely painful and damaging to the eye! Soap and water, is what I would use if I decide to use the finger method...though I think I'd go with disposable gloves.

          And I realize why we're using Atropine and what it does...my concern is the frequency with which it was prescribed (daily).


          Better?

          Comment


          • #6
            Simke- The only advice I have for you is to be sure to treat your horse like you are clicker training every time you do something to his eye (regardless if he behaves or not) when you are done- give him a treat. That way he can anticipate something good rather than it being all dread.

            I have a pony who gets eye meds daily (I know- she's short- I'm tall- it's easy for me to say right?) and she used to be very resistant to the initial meds and it was going to go spiraling down from there (to the point where she was starting to swing her butt at me when I entered her stall) My equine eye dr. coached me on the approach of rewards and WOW- it had made such a difference- she stands so well and tried SO HARD to be still so I can finish up and give her her treat.

            I'll pray for quick healing for your horse- but on the chance that this medicating winds up going on for a month or more- you really want to teach him to cooperate.

            Also- I have to administer 3 different meds to her eye. I put all of them together in a needleless syringe and squirt that mixture in. Makes it a one shot deal and relieves a little of the worrry about trying to get the correct dose out of a tube. This works with ointments or drops.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think the question re: systemic absorption of eye drops is a good one.

              Generally it is a more theoretical concern that everyone worries about but in most studies in humans that I looked at (with potentially unsafe antibiotics like chloramphenicol, gentamicin) very minimal absorption has been shown. There are case reports of harm when significant absorption occurs though

              Many eye drops are designed in such a way that they are slightly viscous (perhaps not noticeably to the naked eye) to help minimize. For humans the recommendation is to follow the “double DOT” procedure” which stands for “Don’t open eyes technique and Digital Occlusion of the Tear Duct” This involves closing the eye and applying pressure over the lacrimal duct (tear duct) for 1-2 minutes after application of the eye drop. This technique reduces systemic absorption by two-thirds.

              I'm not exactly sure how you would accomplish that with a horse but I would definitely ask Vet about it and see if there is a similar technique for horses or if she/he has prescribed this to other horses and what their outcomes were.

              Do horses do stool softeners? ;-)

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry you are going through this! My guy had an indolent corneal ulcer for 5 months last year, so I can sympathize. Luckily, my guy was fairly cooperative, which is good because he is about 17 hands and I have no one to help me out.

                Here is how I did it: I got a box of 1cc syringes and put the meds in there. Make sure they are okay to combine. Some of the stuff needs to be given separately and spread out over 5 minutes or so.

                I slid my hand up under his halter to his eye and with my index finger, gently pulled the lower lid down so there is a pocket to stick the meds into (into the lower lid.) Then I took the syringe in my other hand and directed it down into the pocket and quickly pushed the meds in. That way, if the horse freaked out, the syringe did not poke him in the eye.

                It sounds easier than it was. I had to use patience, treats, and at first a lip chain a few times to get the job done. If your horse absolutely will not stand still for the treatments, then it is time to get them to put the lavage in. Luckily I did not have to resort to that.

                About the atropine, yes, there is a risk of colic. I am not crazy about it because of the length of time it stays in the horse's system. My horse's pupil stayed dilated for well over a week after discontinuing it. But it really does help with the pain. At times my horse was on it twice a day and then I would back down a bit and try to go to every other day, then every three days. My horse never got colicky even after 5 months. I now have my 29 year old horse on it for glaucoma and he has not shown any signs of colic either. My ophthalmologist has told me the risk is fairly low on low doses of atropine.

                Good luck; I hope his eye heals quickly!

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Thanks caryledee. Wow, so you were instructed to use the atropine twice daily or close to daily for 5 months? Congrats on getting you and your horse through this!

                  The worst part of this, for my horse, is that he recently went blind in his other eye. So, unless I keep him stalled all the time, turnout will be a challenge in sunny weather, which it is now. I can't do the thing where you cover the fly mask with duct tape for the eye on atropine. Then he wouldn't see a thing
                  "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Thanks caryledee. Wow, so you were instructed to use the atropine twice daily or close to daily for 5 months? Congrats on getting you and your horse through this!

                    The worst part of this, for my horse, is that he recently went blind in his other eye. So, unless I keep him stalled all the time, turnout will be a challenge in sunny weather, which it is now. I can't do the thing where you cover the fly mask with duct tape for the eye on atropine. Then he wouldn't see a thing
                    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      When my mare was on eye meds (4 some days 4 times a day, 5 some days 4 times a day) I would have lost my mind except for the lavage.

                      Atropine was given every other day and stools were getting VERY dry looking so vet at Auburn had me adding 1/2 cup of mineral oil to her soaked hay pellet meals.
                      These meds were given for two weeks, I'd hated for it to have to go on any longer.
                      You know why cowboys don't like Appaloosas?" - Answer: Because to train a horse, you have to be smarter than it is.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I know this won't help the OP but may help any one in future. I regularly clean around my horses' eyes so when one of them needed to have eye ointment instilled he wasn't panicky about me fussing with his eyes.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          you can get racing hoods with coloured plexiglass eye cups - I used one on a mare with uveitus as "sunglasses". You can also get ones with steel mesh eye cups which are great for stopping them from rubbing at an injured eye.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Rubber gloves with medicine on one finger & try to get the ointment in the pocket created by the lower lid. If you have someone else offer grain or a treat that can't be grabbed while you're doing this it will make life much easier. After a week or so my mare understood the routine & I could do it solo.

                            Can you do evening turn out for a while? Even if its only an hour or two in the evening instead of full overnight, it will help. Add take out & a bottle of wine for a little dinner al fresco?

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              GaMare, in a perfect world I would have my own barn and would be able to turn him out at night. In the present boarding situation, it's not an option. But the wine is

                              Sherian, I will look into a racing hood. It'll be fun to see the reactions of all the other horsies in the barn when they see him in that thing

                              Cat Tap, funny thing is, this horse is accustomed to having his eyes cleaned Every. Single. Day. But nooooooo.....he won't let us come near him with an ointment. FML!

                              Anyhoo, he was slightly more cooperative today. The eye was more closed than I would have liked to see it one day 3 however. But I am chalking that up to photosensitivity rather than it being something wrong...I did put a call into the vet regardless. Thanks for all the helpful comments so far, I really appreciate it!
                              Last edited by Iride; Apr. 18, 2013, 05:00 PM. Reason: added info
                              "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by caryledee View Post
                                Sorry you are going through this! My guy had an indolent corneal ulcer for 5 months last year, so I can sympathize. Luckily, my guy was fairly cooperative, which is good because he is about 17 hands and I have no one to help me out.

                                Here is how I did it: I got a box of 1cc syringes and put the meds in there. Make sure they are okay to combine. Some of the stuff needs to be given separately and spread out over 5 minutes or so.

                                I slid my hand up under his halter to his eye and with my index finger, gently pulled the lower lid down so there is a pocket to stick the meds into (into the lower lid.) Then I took the syringe in my other hand and directed it down into the pocket and quickly pushed the meds in. That way, if the horse freaked out, the syringe did not poke him in the eye.

                                It sounds easier than it was. I had to use patience, treats, and at first a lip chain a few times to get the job done. If your horse absolutely will not stand still for the treatments, then it is time to get them to put the lavage in. Luckily I did not have to resort to that.
                                It sounds really hard!

                                My horse, my 16-2h mare, had an ulcer and I had to treat it every two hours or something horrible like that -- I've blurred out all the details. By the end I was cursing my vet. I ended up calling him about a method recommended by a friend whose vet had told her to use a new tube of plain Neosporin. He okayed it and I was able to treat it that way by putting the gunk on a clean finger and getting it in her eye. Everything healed well.

                                I like Plainandtall's advice or the lavage tubing method. The thing is, I don't have a stall, just a covered run in a paddock, so I don't know if the tubing would work with a free-roaming horse.

                                Iride, I feel your frustration!
                                "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Thanks PetiePie for the story..glad things worked out well for you and your horse!
                                  "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by PeteyPie View Post
                                    It sounds really hard!

                                    My horse, my 16-2h mare, had an ulcer and I had to treat it every two hours or something horrible like that -- I've blurred out all the details. By the end I was cursing my vet. I ended up calling him about a method recommended by a friend whose vet had told her to use a new tube of plain Neosporin. He okayed it and I was able to treat it that way by putting the gunk on a clean finger and getting it in her eye. Everything healed well.

                                    I like Plainandtall's advice or the lavage tubing method. The thing is, I don't have a stall, just a covered run in a paddock, so I don't know if the tubing would work with a free-roaming horse.

                                    Iride, I feel your frustration!
                                    The horse needs to be stalled if the lavage is put in. And even then, they can get rubbed out. It is still the best option for a horse that will not cooperate though.

                                    I am curious; how does a tube of neosporin make treating easier? It still comes down to putting gunk on your finger and putting it in the eye. I know the eye meds are more expensive, but you can get terramycin fairly cheap if you know where to look.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Iride View Post
                                      Thanks caryledee. Wow, so you were instructed to use the atropine twice daily or close to daily for 5 months? Congrats on getting you and your horse through this!

                                      The worst part of this, for my horse, is that he recently went blind in his other eye. So, unless I keep him stalled all the time, turnout will be a challenge in sunny weather, which it is now. I can't do the thing where you cover the fly mask with duct tape for the eye on atropine. Then he wouldn't see a thing
                                      You will be surprised how well they can adapt though. My 29 year old is completely blind in one eye and has very limited vision in the other. He is completely blind at night. He does great in his field; he knows where everything is and gets around fine. I think they have other senses that take over when the vision fails. You might also look for a UV blocking flymask that doesn't completely shut off vision. Guardians are one; I think even Cashel masks block 70%. I put 2 flymasks on my horse when he had to be outside on Atropine. He came through just fine and he had a horrible ulcer. It was over half the size of his cornea! Even my vet commented the other day how amazed she was that it didn't even leave a scar.

                                      You will get through this Iride! If I did, anyone can!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Incidently if you are looking for a place that does blinker hoods, these people are really good: http://tfloki.com/blinkers.html. They were the only place that had hoods big enough for my guy. Great customer service too! I did get a hood with a full cup over the injured eye so he could not rub it. I also ended up getting one of these: http://jupitervetproducts.com/eyesaver.aspx which has gauze and a cotton lining to absorb the moisture.

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