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Hindgut ulcers or something else? So frustrated and worried about my horse!

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  • Hindgut ulcers or something else? So frustrated and worried about my horse!

    Hi guys, I've treated my horse for very mild grade 1 ulcers, but I've read about hindgut ulcers and wonder if there is a test for those?
    Last edited by arary; May. 29, 2013, 11:08 PM. Reason: Sorry so long winded last time!

  • #2
    Try this simple test. Run your hand along her underbelly about 2/3rds of the way back press with your index finger with approx 5lbs of pressure. If she reacts at all then she has an ulcer. Please use caution, she may try to kick at you.
    If there's no reaction, keep looking for a cause.
    The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
    H. Cate

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    • #3
      Search for "hind gut ulcers" and you should get a lot of threads. I posted about my horse's saga where he colicked (RDD) and all signs pointed to the omeprazole he'd been on for several months as the culprit. The [oversimplified] idea is that the decrease of acid in his stomach from the omeprazole allowed more food to his hindgut leading to acidosis and hind gut ulcers. I pulled him off of omeprazole and got my healthy horse back. We had him on Sucralfate for a couple of months after the second (of two) colics and I now have him on Succeed, a pre/probiotic, and apple cider vinegar. He's doing as we'll on all of that as he did on the omeprazole.

      My personal approach moving forward is to treat omeprazole with more care (meaning not putting a mildly ulcer-y horse on it long term) even if my guy was an exception to the rule.
      __________________________________
      Flying F Sport Horses
      Horses in the NW

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      • #4
        Pm infiniti
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        • #5
          Originally posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
          Try this simple test. Run your hand along her underbelly about 2/3rds of the way back press with your index finger with approx 5lbs of pressure. If she reacts at all then she has an ulcer. Please use caution, she may try to kick at you.
          If there's no reaction, keep looking for a cause.

          Gee, it's a wonder vets bother with those endoscopies when there is such a simple way to unequivocally say "this horse has an ulcer".
          Click here before you buy.

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          • #6
            This worked for seemingly incurable cow patty squirts on my 29 year old (unlike your descriptors - he n.e.v.e.r experienced colic or loss of appetite):

            http://www.smartpakequine.com/equishure-4821p.aspx

            We went through all sorts of gyrations to find out what was causing the diarrhea which went on for several months. And currently he is back to his usual feed with the addition of the Equishure and a psyllium.

            My last order was a couple of days late and his stool become rather loose.

            He has been doing well on this for at least one bottle - we are now on our second - and good stool continues.
            Last edited by hurleycane; Apr. 15, 2013, 09:48 AM.
            from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

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            • #7
              Equishure is basically sodium bicarb, vegetable oil and an emulsifier that binds the oil and the bicarb together.

              Its cheaper to buy the oil and the bicarb separately and just feed them to your horse, and the results are the same.

              I bought my horse May last year and she was diagnosed with grade 4 ulcers twice (first time in June and now in January). I treated with gastrogard the first time and am on month 3 of treating with abgard (will scope on the end of the month). This horse always had the smelliest cow poo, and no mater what I did it wouldn't get any better - treated with sulcralfate, probiotics, prebiotics, did fecal analysis, everything.

              In February I decided I might try the bicarb, and in a matter of days her poo turned normal.
              www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

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              • #8
                I would definitely do Succeed Oral Paste Syringes and/or Smart Digest Ultra Paste to start....Sucralfate and Misoprostyl are both excellent for treating hind gut ulcers ....once she starts feeling better, and is back on feed you can put her on Smart Gut Ultra Pellets and Smart Digest Ultra for maintenance

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SCMSL View Post
                  Equishure is basically sodium bicarb, vegetable oil and an emulsifier that binds the oil and the bicarb together.

                  Its cheaper to buy the oil and the bicarb separately and just feed them to your horse, and the results are the same.

                  I bought my horse May last year and she was diagnosed with grade 4 ulcers twice (first time in June and now in January). I treated with gastrogard the first time and am on month 3 of treating with abgard (will scope on the end of the month). This horse always had the smelliest cow poo, and no mater what I did it wouldn't get any better - treated with sulcralfate, probiotics, prebiotics, did fecal analysis, everything.

                  In February I decided I might try the bicarb, and in a matter of days her poo turned normal.

                  Very good info! And yes his poo was extremely smelly when he had the squirts. And his bowel sounds were hyper.

                  Just my observation and not something quantifiable - but I notice he is also calmer - less irritable.

                  I feel like I really dodged a bullet with him. It got to the point where he was stocking up in his hinds. That is gone as well. It was becoming rather scary - I felt like disaster was just around the corner.

                  And it might still be.

                  But the stuff worked - so far.
                  from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

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                  • #10
                    I agree she needs something like Smart Digest, Smart GUT, or Equishure for runny manure; but what you describe with the sucking back in work really sounds like it could be other pain too; I would have professional check saddle fit, bit fit, and girth. As well as have full lameness work up done including thorough exam of neck, back, and pelvis for pain.

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                    • #11
                      I just went through all of this with my OTTB. Thanks to an amazing vet and a vet student we have him on the mend. I'm not a fan of the Omep. I purchased the Canadian Omep paste as recommended by several people. My horse HATED it to the point where he saw the syringe and would try to head but me. I also didn't feel like I saw the results I should. I didn't use Gastrogard because of the cinnamon in it (I have an anaphylactic reaction). I was not comfortable with pop rocks from India either. We switched feeds to ADM which helped with the hindgut issue. Sucralfate worked as well. We used Ranitidine for the foregut ulcers and I had amazing results. It also works much quicker than Omep. Being a nurse, I'm very hesitant to try non-FDA approved things. But that is just me. We elected not to scope based on vet suggestions. We did a few "tests" and he was positive on everyone so we elected to treat. Because we saw a change within the first week we knew it was ulcers. When we began the taper and saw the horse start to relapse, we knew to extend treatment longer.

                      As for symptoms, I couldn't even touch my horse. He was horribly aggressive. Acting like a stud. He was a ball of nerves. Anytime I touched near his sternum he would aggressively come after me. I was honestly scared of my horse his behaviour was so bad. It's worth trying Ranitidine to see if you notice any results. at around $100 for a month it doesn't put you out too much and it won't affect the hindgut acidosis. Speaking of that, my horse had hyperactive bowel sounds, his stool was soft, you could see alot of undigested grass in it, the smell was so foul and yeast like. The color was off too. Everyone thought the horse was overweight but he was horribly bloated. We were going to do the KER Equishure but changing to ADM and using Sulcrafate helped enough we didn't have to.

                      I have been through hell and back with my boy over the last 3 months so I can sympathize with you. Ranitidine and Sucralfate are cheap enough it's worth trying but that is just my opinion.

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                      • #12
                        Is it possible to try your horse on a short fibre diet for a while? (ie hay pellets or soak hay cubes?) If possible, I would do that for a week or two and see if there is a difference. My guy had major relief the day I switched him from hay to soaked alfalfa/tim cubes. Immediately stopped all colicky symptoms. I also have him on Equishure and I would definitley give that a try. I am on month 7 of treating him for hindgut ulcers/right dorsal colitis. He is doing extremely well.

                        Good luck! I know how much is sucks when your horse isn't feeling well and you don't know exactly why. Feel free to DM me if you have any questions.

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                        • #13
                          Then don't try it.

                          Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                          Gee, it's a wonder vets bother with those endoscopies when there is such a simple way to unequivocally say "this horse has an ulcer".
                          The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                          H. Cate

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                          • #14
                            Anmoro:

                            Which ADM feed are you using? I have been through Gastrogard, ranitidine, and now Succeed with my horse. I am beginning to think, he is just cranky.

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                            • #15
                              Possibly ulcers again. I'd talk to my vet about treatment again and I'd also look into neuro diseases also. If she is dragging her back toes it could be epm or lymes etc. You may have two issues going on at the same time which makes things more confusing.
                              Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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                              • #16
                                The other thing to think about is if the sugar in the grass is upsetting the tummy. Horses with hind gut problems are much more sensitive to sugar and more susceptible to developing laminitis. You could go a few days with no grass and see if it helps. (Equishure would also help with this).

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                                • #17
                                  When we suspected hind gut ulcers with one of mine we used Equishure, alfalfa cubes and Sucralfate. His manure firmed up and the chronic gassy episodes resolved almost immediately. We did do the Succeed fecal blood test and it came back "positive", but only because my vet happened to have a free same test--he's on the fence as to their accuracy.
                                  Originally posted by EquineImagined
                                  My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.

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                                  • #18
                                    I also did the Sucralfate and it seemed to help.

                                    Herbie - how long was your guy on the alfalfa cubes??

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hi, bucksnort - where are you getting your Equishure?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hi Ani... I mean Fanfayre . Sometimes I order it from Amazon to our postal box in Montana (obv thats cheaper) but when I order it in Canada I get it from Annabell stables online store: http://www.annabellastables.com/onlinefeedstore.html. It ends up being about $220 for the biggest tub (7.2kg) after shipping and taxes

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