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What do you think of these feet?

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  • Original Poster

    #41
    Originally posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
    Yes it is exactly the word I intended to use.

    You got an objective opinion of the photos from me. To reiterate, they do not contain enough information and detail to evaluate the feet. Some pictures are worth 1000 words. These aren't worth the bandwidth it took to post them. So now you have to make up for the situation with words to describe what cannot be discerned from the inadequate images.

    So you continue remediating the history.

    Correcting the history would imply that it had been incorrect initially. That's not the case. Perhaps incomplete, but not incorrect. I have neither the time nor the inclination to share a horse's entire via internet.



    You have now admitted above that you deliberately left out anything about lameness at the beginning of the thread in order for folks to make up their minds based only on the images.

    Admitted?? Am I in court now? My question was, "What do you think of these feet?" That's really all I wanted to know. And that's why I shared photos of the feet. I'm not looking for a diagnosis. Just an informal opinion of the feet. So I tried to avoiding muddying the water with extraneous information. All I want and wanted to know is, "Do these feet look as f'ed up as I think they do."




    You already had amateurs ready to throw the farrier under the bus based on whatever the pictures reveal (even if they have to use their imaginations to see it.) The over fences performance flies in the face of the superficial examination of the pictures.

    Not at all. The over fences performance just shows that the horse has talent and heart. And that, in order to progress, he'd benefit from as ideal a foot as possible. I simply wanted to point out that he works hard and that he has more need, from a performance standpoint, for correct distal limb alignment than a pasture puff or weekend trail horse. I imagine that the riders who've weighed in understood why that information was shared.



    That is when you realized that you had to provide some remedial information about lameness - but not until post 14. At which point you begin to contradict what you posted in #7.
    There was never any contradiction. You were confrontational from the beginning and seemed to think I was deluded in thinking this horse could benefit from a different farrier. So I mentioned the lameness issues as one of the reasons that I think a farrier change is in order. Again, with my initial question, the history of lameness was irrelevant. I didn't ask what do you think of this horse? Why do you think he's lame? What should I do to improve his feet? Or anything along those lines. I simply asked, "What do you think of these feet?"
    To think that lameness, intermittent or otherwise, and a successful show record is a contradiction only demonstrates ignorance of the horse show world. Sad, I know. But true.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

    Comment


    • #42
      Why is it that an argument that would be uncomfortable in person is riveting online?

      Comment


      • #43
        I'm taking quite a bit of amusement at someone telling a professional who offered information that she has no idea what she's talking about and throws out terms he thinks she's not familiar with....and I'm not talking about farriery lol
        Kerri

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        • #44
          Tom your being childish. If you don't have any advice to give to this person just leave. This forum is to "help" people who are looking for advice not to insult them.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by PonyGirl15 View Post
            Tom your being childish.
            Is it childish to not jump to conclusions without supporting evidence?

            If you don't have any advice to give to this person just leave.
            I gave advice and examples on what is required in the way of images for evaluating feet. If the OP ever gets around to posting useful images, then I will make an evaluation.

            This forum is to "help" people who are looking for advice not to insult them.
            Exactly what have I said that is insulting to anyone? Do you think the OP should feel insulted because I said the images were inadequate for foot evaluation purposes? Do you think the OP should feel insulted by me asking her what she would do to improve the horse's performance immediately following a post of information that indicates good performance?

            And why should I and everyone else not feel insulted when we're deliberately being asked to speculate on incomplete information?

            Comment


            • #46
              Yes, those feet look pretty messed-up to me, especially the fronts. And if he's experiencing front-end lameness, why hasn't the owner had the hooves X-rayed? I would start there, and see if you can convince the owner to switch to a different hoof care provider who can help the horse.
              Topline Leather -- Bespoke, handwoven browbands & accessories customized with Swarovski crystals, gemstones, & glass seed beads. The original crystal braid & crystal spike browbands!

              Comment


              • #47
                How did I know this thread would be a train wreck before I ever opened it? Because it concerned a horse's feet, that's why. Horses feet have become like horse slaughter on this board; something that always goes off the rails due to a few posters who are invariably nasty to someone, usually the OP. In this case it seems like the farriers take any criticism of any farriers anywhere personally. No matter. It isn't going to change. Horse feet is not a topic that we can discuss on COTH.

                Jackie Blue, there is absolutely no point with responding to Tom's posts. There is noting you can say that will change this to a civil discussion with differing opinions welcome.
                "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

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                • Original Poster

                  #48
                  Originally posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
                  Is it childish to not jump to conclusions without supporting evidence?

                  I gave advice and examples on what is required in the way of images for evaluating feet. If the OP ever gets around to posting useful images, then I will make an evaluation.

                  Exactly what have I said that is insulting to anyone? Do you think the OP should feel insulted because I said the images were inadequate for foot evaluation purposes? Do you think the OP should feel insulted by me asking her what she would do to improve the horse's performance immediately following a post of information that indicates good performance?

                  And why should I and everyone else not feel insulted when we're deliberately being asked to speculate on incomplete information?
                  So, now you feel insulted? I feel like I've entered some alternate reality. I've given enough information for the question I've asked and I'm happy to provide answers to other posters' questions.
                  Look Tom, from the first time you posted, when you assumed I wanted to shoe the horse, you seem to think you know me. But, clearly, you don't. I don't shoe horses. You also seem to have an axe to grind with whomever you think I am. At this point I'm fairly certain any opinion you might share if I were to post new pictures would be just as colored by your preconceptions as your previous posts have been. Between a sick daughter and too many horses to ride, please forgive me for not rushing out to take new photos for you to bash.
                  I've always respected you and your level of knowledge. I imagine I still do. But your interpersonal skills are sorely lacking and it's a darn shame.
                  "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
                  http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    The lower left pic of the horse's leg, from the knee down, looks slightly like a "coon" footed conformation issue to me. That is very difficult to get right. Too long a toes causes problems and too short a toe causes problems as do too low a heel or high a heel. Just my observation. I'll place my helmet on now..LOL

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Apparently to have an opinion about anything hoof related, you need to be a hoof genius, camera expert, who knows what else. These hoof threads are ridiculous and its the same two genii who cause all the fuss.

                      Shes not asking for a professional opinion. Just a layman's opinion. Like we do here on COTH.

                      Wish you two would go back to your farrier board and stay there.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        I normally call the vet if my horse is lame. I'd go to my farrier in some cases but not for undiagnosed lameness.
                        The toes look long in the picture but I don't see anything that screams dump this farrier. I'm in no way an expert so take this for what it's worth.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          um, those hooves are wonky. That's my very unprofessional opinion

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by pal-o-mino View Post
                            Apparently to have an opinion about anything hoof related, you need to be a hoof genius, camera expert, who knows what else. These hoof threads are ridiculous and its the same two genii who cause all the fuss.

                            Shes not asking for a professional opinion. Just a layman's opinion. Like we do here on COTH.

                            Wish you two would go back to your farrier board and stay there.
                            Thank you for again providing the evidence that you are a Fluff Bunny who also suffers from TSS.

                            Further, Jackie should be getting and considering only professional opinions because, generally speaking, when it comes to the subject of hoof care/problems/etc, it is demonstrable that a layman's opinion(yours for example) ain't worth squat.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Thank you for again providing the evidence that you are a Fluff Bunny who also suffers from TSS.

                              Just curious, what is TSS????
                              We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                So much for me learning anything about trimming feet here-not that I want to do it myself-I have just been thinking that my guy is trimmed a bit long in the toe. I think I'll leave this alone.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Terminal Stable Stupidity

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Rick Burten View Post
                                    Thank you for again providing the evidence that you are a Fluff Bunny who also suffers from TSS.

                                    Further, Jackie should be getting and considering only professional opinions because, generally speaking, when it comes to the subject of hoof care/problems/etc, it is demonstrable that a layman's opinion(yours for example) ain't worth squat.
                                    Wrong again.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      As promised privately

                                      1st set of photos:
                                      Horse has "Hi-Lo/Up-Down syndrome with the RF being high with stacked heels and a dished toe and the LF being long toed-low heeled with what seems to me to be a tending towards a negative plane coffin bone(which can only be determined by radiographs). There is coronary jamming at appx. the medial toe pillar of the RF. As expected, the contra-lateral hinds, to a lesser degree, exhibit the same conformational discrepancies. Though it may be due to the horse standing on unlevel ground, there seems to be some M-L balance issues. In one of the photos, the RF knee looks to have a knot on the medial front of its knee(eg: it is not 'flat kneed' )

                                      2nd st of photos:
                                      More confirmation of my first observations with the addition of significant coronary jamming(upwards dislocation) in the hinds.

                                      3rd st of photos:
                                      Further confirmation/more of the same.

                                      4th set of photos:
                                      Again, more confirmation of the problems that I see.

                                      So, what to do? Find a farrier well versed and successful in dealing with Hi-Lo syndrome. The precise manner of dealing with this horse's issues is not a discussion to be had without actually seeing the horse and having 'hoof in hand'. Suffice to say that as presented, this is not how *I* would handle this horse's hoof care. And, it is most definitely not a discussion to be had by amateurs and dilettantes.

                                      Out of curiosity, does this horse have any trouble taking or maintaining its right lead? Does the saddle slip in either direction? If so, which direction?* Does this horse forge or pull shoes? If so, which side?**



                                      *my bet, to the right
                                      ** my bet, right side
                                      Extra credit: Why?

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by JackieBlue View Post
                                        in fact, that his movement is noticeably uneven and muscling in the forearms is asymmetric.
                                        This is not necessarily lameness per se, though it is a definition(gait-wise) of 'unsoundness'. Though in this case, I'd sure want a full lameness exam that also evaluated that right knee, and included better hoof radiographs, hoof tester use and flexion tests that included, at a minimum, all joints from and including, the knee, down. And those flexion tests should take place on a variety of surfaces including, hard ground, soft ground, uneven ground, slopes, etc. One of the vets with whom I work has a gravel parking lot with areas that have different sized gravel, a crowned asphalt road with sloped drainage ditches, and a flat grassy area. All of which are used during flexion tests and lameness exams.

                                        Many/most horses with Hi-Lo syndrome have this gait aberration and people spend a lot of time and money trying to fix a non- existent lameness, when the problem is one of mechanics. Further, people, vets included spend their time trying to 'fix' the front end and ignoring the hind end. Well folks, you can manage the front end but you won't 'fix the front end. And if the hind end is ignored, you might just as well spend your time, effort and money on something that won't give you headaches and heartaches. By the way, IMNTBCHO, from a farrier perspective, it is much easier to manage the hind end than it is to manage the front end.

                                        And for those who like to set their saddle either on or really tight behind the withers, all you are doing is exacerbating the problem and getting in the horse's way. And as long as you engage in that practice, nothing anyone else does is going to be able to really help the horse. One more thing. Except when you are in the show ring and being judged, post the Hi side diagonal. Extra credit: Why?
                                        And, if your instructor hasn't suggested that you do that, as well as adjusting the saddle location, you should be asking yourself, "Why"? And, ignorance is no excuse.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by JackieBlue View Post
                                          Signs at this time are: limping (RF, which is his more upright foot.)
                                          Is he limping or just moving short strided? And, with horses with his bio-mechanical issues, there is a difference. It is also possible that there is something going on in his knee that is exacerbated by his bio-mechanical hoof issue.

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