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Horse compensated for injury and is now DEAD lame in other leg. Possible injuries?

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  • #21
    Agree withe everyone else. Get the vet out if you can afford it.
    My horse ripped off half his hoof wall but didn't take a lame step, and the surgeons were still super concerned about supporting limb laminitis on the other side.

    The vet shouldn't be diagnosing over the phone. Everyone knows you can't diagnose anything without seeing the animal first.


    Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
    If the horse is laminitic, you would be icing his feet regularly, have him on very deep soft bedding and limiting movement, and on an anti-inflammatory.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      His ankle and pasturn on the suspicious leg were a bit swelled last night and this morning. I know thats another sign of an abscess. But couldnt it also just swell with him not putting 100% weight on it?He has standing wraps, surpass rubbed in the inside of the leg just under the knee where he has puffyness and I originally thought suspensory, one gram of bute every night and completely stall bound.

      Hoping for the best.
      Tinker Toy & Blue Bonnett

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      • #23
        Why don't you get the vet out or at least the farrier? I don't understand the wait and see. I wouldn't be buting either.
        McDowell Racing Stables

        Home Away From Home

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        • #24
          Vet vet vet.
          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by WARDen View Post
            His ankle and pasturn on the suspicious leg were a bit swelled last night and this morning. I know thats another sign of an abscess. But couldnt it also just swell with him not putting 100% weight on it?He has standing wraps, surpass rubbed in the inside of the leg just under the knee where he has puffyness and I originally thought suspensory, one gram of bute every night and completely stall bound.

            Hoping for the best.
            Have you ever thought that he could have an abscess AND be laminitic?!

            The vet should've seen the horse yesterday.
            "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

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            • #26
              I don't understand why the OP is waiting!

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by pinkpony321 View Post
                I don't understand why the OP is waiting!
                I would guess because the OP has never had first hand experience with laminitis/founder and doesn't fully understand the ramifications of waiting these types of things out.
                "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Farrier lives an hour and a half away and is scheduled to come this week due to bad weather the day he was supposed to come last week ( which was before I knew of this issue).

                  I have spoken to vet several times and she knows his entire history and sequence of events. He was cleared for trot work so on Tuesday of last week he was trotted undersaddle - mostly sound but sometimes gimpy on the "surgery leg". To make sure his surgery leg was free and clear, i had the vet out to do xrays the following day. Little did I know he was off on the left already (bc he is still kept in a stall majority of the time and all we did was walk him into the aisle and use the xray machine while standing still.) I didnt realize he was off on the left until I sedated him and walked him out to a small paddock for some out time and the vet had already left my property. Another vet in the area, who has also worked on this horse is coming for a scheduled visit thursday for other reasons and will see my horse as well complete with xray and ultrasound machine. I have over $3000 in vet bills for this horse already incurred just in 2013. I also work a full time job and cant just leave to meet the vet at a moments notice. I have talked to TWO vets, relayed all information and they both think abscess and know what kind of care he is under while stall bound. ( wrapping/surpass/ deep bedding/bute etc). They both claim that waiting until Thursday wont harm him, he has very limited movement and is happy standing still with his small hole hay net. We will know more Thursday, but will continue to keep him comfortable.
                  Tinker Toy & Blue Bonnett

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    OP, as others have said, this may be laminitis. If so, you have a small window of time during which treatment can greatly impact the outcome. Your window is closing. You didn't pay for a surgery just to lose your horse or his serviceability to a treatable complication, did you?
                    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
                    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

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                    • #30
                      I hope for this horse's sake that its only an abscess, because its apparent that the OP and the vets who have "spoken on the phone" about the horse aren't going to take action any quicker than Thursday.

                      OP, are you planning on doing rads on that lame front foot? I'd want to know if there was any rotation in there, and since the vet doesn't seem too concerned, I'd wager a bet that the vet won't encourage rads either.
                      "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by WARDen View Post
                        ...
                        I have spoken to vet several times and she knows his entire history and sequence of events.
                        This will not prevent the horse from developing laminitis.

                        I have over $3000 in vet bills for this horse already incurred just in 2013.
                        Which may all be for naught if this horse end up crippled or euthanized because of laminitis that isn't treated properly.

                        I have talked to TWO vets, relayed all information and they both think abscess and know what kind of care he is under while stall bound.
                        If he hasn't been doing anything, why exactly do they think abscess rather than laminitis from the weight on the supporting limb? From experience, laminitis is a more likely culprit.

                        They both claim that waiting until Thursday wont harm him
                        Not something I'd want to rely on, since they haven't examined the horse and are making this determination over a telephone call.
                        "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
                          . . .
                          Not something I'd want to rely on, since they haven't examined the horse and are making this determination over a telephone call.
                          That's easy to do when you're DR. GOD!

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Hypothetical

                            Ok, lets be hypothetical here: Let say he is a mild case for laminitis. What would the treatment be? Ive looked all over the internet/googled/ read articles and the three consistent things I have come across for treatment are icing the hoof, deep bedding for comfort, and an anti-inflammatory. What additional treatments are there? When I ran the possibility of laminitis past both vets, considering it would be from compensating and not from lush grass or other diet causes, they both mentioned the icing, bedding and anti-Inflammatory.

                            Also, the more I ponder on it. He has been completely fine the two months since surgery as far as weight baring evenly on both feet. He was never really that sore after surgery as he was kept on bute for a week or so. If it is laminitis it would have been caused from trotting him for <5 minutes last Tuesday where 80% of the time he was taking even steps and had flowing movement. This is why both vets do not believe its possible laminitis. So the question is, can laminitis occur because of being put back to work and being slighty gimpy causing him to compensate for maybe 5 minutes? He was even at the walk during this ride.
                            Tinker Toy & Blue Bonnett

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I would get a muck bucket, fill it with ice and put my horse's foot in it…then I would call my vet and ask for them to come ASAP. You need pictures of that foot to rule out laminitis.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Just because trotting for 5 minutes is the most recent thing your horse has done, that doesn't make it the cause of laminitis, if he does, indeed, have it. Cumulative damage is likely responsible (if he has it), starting from the time of his original injury. Just standing in a stall can cause laminitis in some horses. Especially if they're stalled and the plane of nutrition is too high. Medications can cause laminitis. And he's certainly had those during his procedure and recovery. Stress, too. In some horses, a westerly wind can bring on laminitis! Okay, not really, but you get the point. There is no specific recipe and oftentimes there is a full recipe of ingredients added to the pot over time. Your horse has had all of the above - stall rest, stress, medications, PLUS uneven weight bearing.
                                IV anti-inflammatories and DMSO infusion (well, also an anti-inflammatory) are commonly given. Many vets will also give IV fluids. Radiographs will indicate whether direct intervention is necessary for the foot. Just icing, giving bute and keeping on soft bedding is not sufficient in the vast majority of cases.
                                "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
                                http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Well my guys rotation didn't show up till a month after the injury to the other foot healed and his signs of the rotation were hardly any. He was not lame at all! Moved nicely, tracked up great, sound sound sound. I rode him 3 times that week and noticed in two of these rides, the first two rides, his knee buckled once in the rides. That was enough for concern from me. The lat ride that week he did not do that. Vet came out. We opted to xray knee, fetlock and feet trying to see if anything was really going on since he was sound. Turned out 2 degree rotation and I was lucky because that's very slight and I caught it quick. All horses are different and present differently. What I had to do was immediate corrective shoeing for one. We allowed him to go out in the paddock around the barn a few hours a day, he just ate grass and walked around. Very calm guy. In stall at other times. Feed changes even though it wasn't because of food still changed it. Xrayed every four weeks with new shoes and after 3 months his xrays are completely normal and stable. Will xray once more in about 8 weeks to make double sure.
                                  Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    WE HAVE AN ABSCESS!

                                    On the cornet band closer to the rear of the hoof! Looks like it opened itself up while I was working yesterday. This morning it was huge so I will be soaking at least 20 Minutes to draw anything else out that is in there. Aside from epsom salts, should I add betadine or iodine into the soak?
                                    Tinker Toy & Blue Bonnett

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Did your vet come to give this diagnosis?

                                      Laminiitis can often blow open the cornorary band.
                                      www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                                      "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                                      Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

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                                      • #39
                                        Abscesses are notoriously frequent in laminitic horses and seem to never go away. Given the inadequate immune response of horses with metabolic syndrome, this makes sense.

                                        There are two important underlying components to abscess formation. The first of these is the inability of the innate immune system to remove fluid build-up and microorganisms as well as trapped cell fragments. The second is the growth of bacteria that both the innate and adaptive immune systems are unable to eliminate.

                                        Following a laminitic episode, there is dead tissue, microorganisms, fluid swelling, and inflammation remaining in the hoof. Until the immune process can completely remove these, the hoof remains vulnerable to abscesses.

                                        Abscesses, in these horses, can get so severe that the horse will have extreme difficulty in movement. This can happen without any visual indications at the sole level. The ‘out-of-control’ inflammatory response trying to take care of the growing abscess will create heat at the coronary band area along with debilitating pain from extreme inflammation in the confined hoof capsule. These signs are often mistaken for an imminent or yet another laminitic episode when they are actually indications of abscesses.
                                        Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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                                        • #40
                                          http://www.laminitis.org/laminitis.html
                                          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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