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Barefoot transition for the fire breathing beast

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  • #21
    Barefoot horses live longer? Can you post the citation on that one?
    Click here before you buy.

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    • Original Poster

      #22
      I think I didn't make my self clear. By "longevity" I didn't actually mean they lived longer, I meant they managed to be sounder up to a more advanced age... It does make some sense, I guess. Banging something onto a live structure every 45 days for 10+ years can't be too good for that structure...
      www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

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      • #23
        OK. According to whom are barefoot horses sounder for more years? I can count more confounding variables in that sort of comparison than I have fingers.

        We "bang" on our bones all the time with weight bearing exercise. It's quite good for them as they adapt to the stress and become stronger. Not a direct analogy, because hooves are not bones and hammering is not weight bearing. But I'd be curious to see where there is some evidence that "banging" on a hoof does it any harm whatsoever and that barefoot horses have longer careers.
        Click here before you buy.

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        • #24
          Of course in order to believe that supposition you have to totally discard the logic and ignore the overwhelming evidence that most horses that compete hard in athletic events require shoes to be competitive and that athletic competition horses are much more prone to breakdowns than barefoot pasture ornaments that don't have any performance requirements.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by deltawave View Post
            . . . But I'd be curious to see where there is some evidence that "banging" on a hoof does it any harm whatsoever and that barefoot horses have longer careers.
            I trim a lot of barefoot geriatrics that are sound because their "career" never required them to work hard enough in their life to require shoes or develop any kind of chronic joint or soft tissue trauma that is common with eventers, show jumpers, or any other serious athletic competition.

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            • #26
              And I have two 15yo high-mileage geldings who never go fast enough to hurt themselves, both shod and neither one showing any signs of impeding retirement.

              Comment


              • #27
                While I think if possible barefoot is the option to take (again, IF possible - not necessarily always the case), I think you need to get some serious help from someone who has made the transition, because what you've posted so far makes me cringe when thinking about horse discomfort.

                I am in the middle of a barefoot transition for my TB, who is finally starting to show changes in his hooves. In his case it was something I felt was pretty necessary because he had underrun heels which simply grew that way after so many years in shoes. I'm finally convinced he's going to be able to stay barefoot, including able to go to dressage shows and not require hoof boots, but even if we ended up having to put shoes back on him before showing again just time without shoes to allow his hooves to recover seemed a huge plus. His soles are also thickening compared to what they were with shoes - a single small stone used to knock him out of work for a long time because he was so thin soled, but since going barefoot he does far better. Some horses seem to do far worse barefoot, though.
                Originally posted by Silverbridge
                If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

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                • #28
                  For god's sake, if the horse is sound enough barefoot right now to lunge, she'll be fine turned out in a field. And if she is so unsound that you can't even turn her out, then what in the world makes you think she is a barefoot candidate?!

                  You're overanalyzing. Turn the horse out in a paddock, field, whatever, and leave her there until the farrier can come take a look.
                  "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

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                  • #29
                    This:
                    Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
                    You're overanalyzing. Turn the horse out in a paddock, field, whatever, and leave her there until the farrier can come take a look.
                    I have 2 horses I choose to described as unshod, not to be confused with barefoot/ natural trimmed. I am no farrier or vet, but I would just make sure this thing is out in a soft paddock with enough opportunity to exercise if she wishes. It sounds like she is a little hot by nature. With my hotter guy, I left him barefoot in a soft pasture and lunged him in nice footing, in well fitting boots only for working, regularly enough that it kept the edge off before he got nutty. I figured it is hard when a horse has enough energy that you can't trust them to 'tell you' when he shouldn't work, so I tried to avoid getting there. Your mileage may vary.

                    If you are planning to leave your horse without shoes, I might suggest finding a farrier who does both shoes and pasture trims on horses regularly, for a truly objective opinion on your horses well being, as opposed to a natural trimmer or all shoes farrier.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I've never met or even heard of an all shoes farrier - though I'm sure there are some that specialize in nothing but shoeing for one specific discipline. In that case trimming wouldn't be a service they would offer anyway.

                      I really have a hard time understanding how a farrier can be considered competent if they haven't mastered the trimming process. Trimming is the very foundation of competent farriery.

                      Anyone who takes up farriery and skimps in learning to trim proficiently probably short changed themselves in learning other things like functional anatomy, gait analysis and biomechanics, or fabricating and fitting shoes.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by sublimequine View Post
                        It sounds like the boots might not fit. My mare does some pretty acrobatic feats in her hoof boots and has yet to lose one. I even forgot to take them off once, so she was turned out in them for over 24 hours and didn't lose them.
                        I agree; boots shouldn't come off very easily unless you forgot to tighten them or you have deep mud. My mare lost one once in the snow, but the other one stayed on. I think it was probable that I didn't tighten them equally.

                        What kind of boots did you get?

                        My mare fit into Boas best; they weren't my first choice but they were great when we had a similar situation (shoe ripped off part of hoof wall) and in situations when she lost a shoe and had to wait a few days to get a new one. After you put them on and tighten them you need to walk your horse around a bit then check them again (at least for the Boas, based on the ratchet tightening thingy).

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
                          I've never met or even heard of an all shoes farrier - though I'm sure there are some that specialize in nothing but shoeing for one specific discipline. In that case trimming wouldn't be a service they would offer anyway.

                          I really have a hard time understanding how a farrier can be considered competent if they haven't mastered the trimming process. Trimming is the very foundation of competent farriery.

                          Anyone who takes up farriery and skimps in learning to trim proficiently probably short changed themselves in learning other things like functional anatomy, gait analysis and biomechanics, or fabricating and fitting shoes.
                          I know the local "farrier schools" don't teach things like how to make sure the heel is lined up evenly with the internal structure of the hoof - and the farriers around here who know/get that right have typically learned from barefoot trimmers.

                          I also know of some very expensive (for the area, probably not for other parts of the country) farriers who I don't think would be willing to trim barefoot horses. Clearly, not farriers I would be willing to use.


                          As far as boots go - I use EasyBoots because we have a local EasyCare store and they're great to work with plus super convenient. I like reading about all the options you all use as I move forward on the barefoot path with my TB gelding...
                          Originally posted by Silverbridge
                          If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
                            I've never met or even heard of an all shoes farrier - though I'm sure there are some that specialize in nothing but shoeing for one specific discipline. In that case trimming wouldn't be a service they would offer anyway.

                            I really have a hard time understanding how a farrier can be considered competent if they haven't mastered the trimming process. Trimming is the very foundation of competent farriery.

                            Anyone who takes up farriery and skimps in learning to trim proficiently probably short changed themselves in learning other things like functional anatomy, gait analysis and biomechanics, or fabricating and fitting shoes.
                            There is one place, and one place only AKAIK, that you'll find an "all shoes farrier" and that's in the Light Shod, Plantation and Performance divisions of the TN Walking Horse world. To attain the Big Lick or JV Big Lick shoes are required (and some pretty impressive shoes they are; a legal Plantation shoe can weigh up to 48 oz.).

                            Of course this is a perversion of the art of farriery and, IMO, such devices as stacks and heavy shoes cause both long and short term injury to the horse. And, no, I don't have university level, peer reviewed study to prove it.

                            What I do have is a dozen years as a Walker owner and the experience of rehabbing (or trying to) a half dozen or so ex-Big Lick horses over time.

                            The best farriers I've ever known preach that the art of the farrier begins with a trim to anatomical correctness and appropriate to the use of the horse. Then a shoe is added, if necessary, to protect the trim. That has the added value of enhancing the utility of the horse. Done correctly, there is no evidence that this causes short or long term negative consequences.

                            Of course they don't just preach, they do.

                            The few "barefoot trimmers" I've met have been doctrinaire mechanics who trim each horse IAW some "template" that they've been taught. One local, who dresses like Mick Dundee, takes an hour to trim a horse and engages in more ruffles and flourishes than a band greeting a French admiral. It's almost comical to watch. That entertainment value is tempered when the horse walks off lame.

                            I will confess a very strong "knee jerk" to the various BUA claims and blandishments. But my AN/ASA-4A Detector Set, Night Soil, Bovine, Male is in good working order. It helps me control that troublesome knee. It also helps me call 'em like a see (and smell) 'em.

                            G.
                            Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                              . . . But my AN/ASA-4A Detector Set, Night Soil, Bovine, Male is in good working order.
                              Is that the one with built in GPS, WIFI, and bluetooth?

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by netg View Post
                                I know the local "farrier schools" don't teach things like how to make sure the heel is lined up evenly with the internal structure of the hoof
                                I am aware of some 8 week "carpentry courses" offered under the guise of "farrier school" in your state. The T-Square dogma is alive and well.

                                - and the farriers around here who know/get that right have typically learned from barefoot trimmers.
                                Where did the barefoot trimmers learn it? Mustang dogma?

                                I also know of some very expensive (for the area, probably not for other parts of the country) farriers who I don't think would be willing to trim barefoot horses. Clearly, not farriers I would be willing to use.
                                Well it certainly wouldn't make sense to ask them if they would trim your horses if you aren't willing to pay their fees.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by netg View Post
                                  I know the local "farrier schools" don't teach things like how to make sure the heel is lined up evenly with the internal structure of the hoof - and the farriers around here who know/get that right have typically learned from barefoot trimmers.
                                  You "know" this, how?
                                  I also know of some very expensive (for the area, probably not for other parts of the country) farriers who I don't think would be willing to trim barefoot horses.
                                  You don't think but you don't know... Personally, most farriers of my acquaintance like trimming for barefoot. Less overhead thus more profit...
                                  Clearly, not farriers I would be willing to use.
                                  Clearly, they wouldn't fit your paradigm so defacto, you wouldn't be willing to use them. So what?
                                  As far as boots go - I use EasyBoots because we have a local EasyCare store and they're great to work with plus super convenient.
                                  Easy come, easy go.......
                                  I like reading about all the options you all use as I move forward on the barefoot path with my TB gelding...
                                  There's often rocks and gravel and other impediments on that path so as a buddy of mine might offer, "mind how ya' go now"......

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    G.,
                                    Don't forget race track platers who only provide services at the track.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Rick Burten View Post
                                      You "know" this, how?.
                                      Uh...I concur with Netg based on the website of the "local" farrier school....

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
                                        I am aware of some 8 week "carpentry courses" offered under the guise of "farrier school" in your state. The T-Square dogma is alive and well...
                                        The local feed store has the "text" required for said carpentry course....the "trimming instructions" are less than one page. Not that I think trimming should be turned into some mysterious, overanalyzed, verbose subject....

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by netg View Post
                                          I also know of some very expensive (for the area, probably not for other parts of the country) farriers who I don't think would be willing to trim barefoot horses. Clearly, not farriers I would be willing to use.
                                          Interesting. Define "expensive."

                                          Are you not willing to use them because they are expensive or because they don't want to do "barefoot trims?"

                                          G.
                                          Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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