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What is everybody's issue with soy?

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  • What is everybody's issue with soy?

    Unless your horse actually has a bad reaction to it, what's wrong with soy?

    As far as I know, its one of the best sources of protein as the amino-acid profile is very rich (so your feeding more for less). However, I see more and more posts about people bad-pressing soy, so was wondering why.
    www.facebook.com/lusitanos4sale

  • #2
    I have 2 horses that do fine on soy, and one who unfortunately most decidedly does not. Perfectly happy to feed it to the two who can eat it, would prefer not to pay the vet bills on the other.

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    • #3
      Soy is a common allergen with horses, dogs and people. It's effects can be subtle if your horse is allergic to it.

      Most soy is genetically engineered if that sort of thing bothers you.

      Other than that it is fine.

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      • #4
        Soy "issues" fall into three broad categories.

        1. It is "GMO" and that freaks a lot of people out.

        2. Soy protein(s) can be allergenic in some individuals.

        3. There are mild phytoestrogen properties in soy (along with flax and many other seeds) that people blame for all manner of things, such as normal mare behavior, etc.
        Click here before you buy.

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        • #5
          It's a phytoestrogen, it's GMO, it's HIGHLY chemically sprayed in the fields. I treat my body like a temple, I do the same for my horse. It's whatever you want and believe in.

          There's also the fact the corn and soy crops are ruining the Midwest, but that's a whole nother discussion!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ponypappy
            My horse was found to be allergic to soy and it is in everything. I had to go to a whole foods diet that I could monitor. I am feeling better that I know what he is eating and he is doing great.
            I do a whole foods diet and LOVE it! I've started with herbs this year too

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            • #7
              Soy meal is probably the best protein source readily available for horses. There is NOTHING out there that compliments it equally.

              However, we truly are seeing more and more horses having allergies and intolerances to soy.

              I theorize part of the problem is how we feed our horses (and ourselves) in monoculture-- we base our feed products off of high amounts of a few ingredients, like soy, instead of feeding a nutritional diversity.

              Long term exposure to these few, single ingredients can develop adverse effects over time.
              Last edited by Texarkana; Mar. 18, 2013, 12:43 PM. Reason: spelling
              Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

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              • #8
                Could affect horses because soy is being overfed. Protein is good, but a mature horse can't use more than about 10% in his diet, the rest is wasted. I don't buy commercial feeds, with higher cost and having stuff in them I don't want to feed.
                I do add soy bean meal to our corn and oat mix, but it is only 10% of the total weight, so 40# in 400# of grains. Never had a problem with any of the horses, who all have EXCELLENT hooves and great coats of hair.

                Dog food is terrible, with high listings of protein in them, which has been proven to damage other parts of the dog. I always buy a low protein dog food, ALWAYS read the labels for those "picky details". Dogs have good hair, no health issues, don't develop issues over time with this feeding. All look nice, have LOTS of energy!

                Guess I have been lucky to not have a horse with soy problems, not had to deal with that.

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                • #9
                  I have two horses with metabolic issues that do a whole better without eating soy.

                  I have a third horse who has murderous intent in his eyes if he eats anything with soy as the protein source. I'm sure if I took a picture of his eyes at the right moment, that red glare would not be "red eye" caused by the camera.

                  And I mean murderous - even my non-horse husband can see the difference in the softness (or NOT) in his eyes and the fact that he isn't swishing his tail threateningly.

                  When he's not eating soy, I can bath him without having to tie him and I don't need the riding crop in the bath bucket.

                  He is 16.1H and has been in my barn for 16 of his 18 years. I didn't discover his food intolerances until 2007.

                  I am 5'2" and retired. I am to fudging old to be arguing with a horse that all I have to do is take the soy (and grains) out of his diet.

                  For the record, if anyone is interested and has access, McCauley's M-10 Balancer is both soy and grain-free.

                  This horse has been on it since last November and his behavior on this product is even better than when he was on EquiPride.

                  It took ten ounces of EquiPride and it takes 16 ounces of McCauley's.

                  EquiPride is $60/50 lbs; McCauley's is $23/50 lbs. For the improvement in attitude, I will keep the McCauley's M-10 until I see it's not working, then I'll find another way to get his vit/mins in him without feeding him soy

                  Oh, there's a fourth horse who does eat soy. He is a 27 yr old Arab with no visible soy issues, so he eats Triple Crown Senior and does fabulous --- so far ---

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                  • #10
                    10% of his diet doesn't tell you anything of value, because a horse with a huge caloric need could get "too much" protein in 10%, and a horse who is restricted and muzzled could get too little.

                    It's grams of crude protein, and grams of lysine, which matter, and vary little from horse to horse, all else equal. The average 1100lb horse in moderate work needs about 700gm protein and a bit under 30 gm lysine. Easy keeper on 16000 calories (of which 10% is only 400gm protein), harder keeper on 35000 calories (of which 10% is 900gm), doesn't matter

                    I really have to disagree with you on the low protein needs of dog good High protein is what they need - it's the source of protein that is usually the problem in the many terribly foods out there. High protein does not cause problems for dogs unless they already have a problem that precludes as high a protein diet as they should be getting.
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for the information on McCauleys, I do find that it takes a lot of Equipride .

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                      • #12
                        goodhors

                        My mare can eat 1-2 slices of wheat or white bread, and not long afterwards, she will be nutty. That's if the bread has soy in it, and most all do. Be it flour or oil.

                        Even a horse treat with soy will cause problems, mainly spooky problems.

                        I feed tim pellets, and equipride.

                        Yes, soy beans are sprayed like there is no tomorrow. I live right across the street from a small bean field, and they grow them LOTS around here. They spray those beans as much as they do the cotton. OMG.

                        My mare also says Mrs. Pasture's Cookies has soy in them. Although label says not. I give tim/alfa mini cubes as treats and she thinks they are wonderful. Also peppermints.

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                        • #13
                          I feed soy to my birds and my pigs get some at this point. That's it on this farm. My horses did not react well to it at all for whatever reason and most of you know that story...if not do a search back to 2008. I'm quite certain I did not make it up.

                          Soy actually has the most bioactive and potent of all the phytoestrogens of the legumes. Women who eat a lot of it can affect their cycles and babies eating soy formula are getting the equivalent of 5 BC pills a day to their little bodies. Yum yum...bon appetit. It is high in phytates which block uptake of certain minerals also..that is true of all grains and legumes BTW but soy is particularly "dirty" and that's why you can't eat it raw. Traditionally in Asian cultures, it is fermented before being consumed.

                          One more point about soy and it has been speculated on this forum that the chemicals like hexane used to process soy in the manner it is used in the US can be leaving residues. Anything that processed, I consume with caution...GMO or not... I just don't see the point in feeding it after the problems I had...lots of them....there are other options that work just as well.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Daydream Believer View Post
                            babies eating soy formula are getting the equivalent of 5 BC pills a day to their little bodies. Yum yum...bon appetit.
                            Can you provide any kind of source for this bit of sensationalization?
                            As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.

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                            • #15
                              Soy causes Republicans.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by katarine View Post
                                Soy causes Republicans.
                                HA!

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                                • #17
                                  I couldn't find the specific study I saw that discussed the levels of estrogens in soy formula fed babies but here is a link to Weston Price that sums up the issues. I have to get going for the day and don't have time I'm afraid to do more research now:

                                  http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-aler...not-be-fed-soy

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                                  • #18
                                    Weston Price Foundation is the most rabid anti-soy group possible and their definition of "facts" is extremely questionable, about at the same level as their motivations. That's not research, it's a hysterical, one-sided article meant to provoke panic.

                                    Just think of what the WPF has to gain by trashing soy. Then ask yourself if they are being dispassionate and even-handed in their propaganda. Hmmmmmm.
                                    Click here before you buy.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Daydream Believer View Post
                                      I couldn't find the specific study I saw that discussed the levels of estrogens in soy formula fed babies but here is a link to Weston Price that sums up the issues. I have to get going for the day and don't have time I'm afraid to do more research now:

                                      http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-aler...not-be-fed-soy
                                      I see nothing in this link that resembles any kind of semi-legitimate science. It reads like the propaganda of someone who is more than a bit off-kilter.
                                      As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.

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                                      • #20
                                        FWIW, I used to drink soy milk w/ cereal because I don't do well w/ lactose. After my breast cancer, my medical oncologist recommended I stay away from soy because of the phytoestrogens. Just in case. I don't think she was a rabid anything, perhaps just cautious. As one would hope.

                                        Granted, I am not a horse. Nor am I a soybean. But obviously someone believes the phytoestrogens are in there, and could be harmful.

                                        See the other thread for a summary of my horse's issues (tho I suspect his were more with the soy proteins than with the phytoestrogens).
                                        "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

                                        Spay and neuter. Please.

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