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Barefoot - Enough of it!!

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  • #41
    Originally posted by J.D. View Post
    There are 3 of them!!!! I just posted one vid of the 3 vids I have. Seems to me there is an operator problem with rasp, nippers and knife
    Your reply doesn't make any sense.

    I watched all three videos. The outline of the hoof indicates it hasn't been trimmed in weeks.

    Has this horse been X-rayed? It looks like he may have rotated and dropped.

    Comment


    • #42
      Oh heavens. Please do NOT tell me that trim belongs to someone claiming to have learned from Pete.

      Honestly, I hate to say this, but I do think I see JD point...if I may JD?

      Today he goes out to see a long time client-of 15 years.

      For whatever reason, his client chooses shoeless...and ends up with hoof butcher.

      NOW, client calls in JD to clean up the mess and he arrives to find horses in worse shape than he left them (however long ago).

      Regardless of which side of the fence you graze on, this is frustrating and upsetting.

      As a professional trimmer or farrier, seeing a horse gimping around should make your stomach drop and you want the world to see the wrong doing.

      I have been right there-5 years ago. First barefoot trim on my horses...crippled my entire farm for weeks and weeks on end. All in the name of healing. I still want to vomit at my ignorance and trust in someone in the name of barefoot.

      The debate of shoes vs. bare will have to end one day and simply become good hoof care vs. bad...seeing to the needs of the horses.

      Because at the end of the day, isn't that what it is all about?

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
        I watched all three videos. The outline of the hoof indicates it hasn't been trimmed in weeks.

        Has this horse been X-rayed? It looks like he may have rotated and dropped.

        What is up with this JD...trimmed on the 16th? That is just a couple of days ago and there does not seem to be a clean rasp stroke on the entire wall?

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by Daydream Believer
          No, the horse I did today was NOT laminitic like the one in the video. You'd be shocked how well those horses (even acutely laminitic) ones do in the pads/boots also. That sinker I mentioned walked off sound as soon her boots and pads went on and she was so lame she could barely stand for the trim.
          Edge of P3 pushing against the sole? Or just a flat footed horse? Not being a jerk, I've owned both...in the same horse (different times ).

          Originally posted by Daydream Believer
          The horse I did today got a good roll on his walls, I removed all the broken "hangnail" chips of wall, and I adjusted the lateral balance which was truly awful and viola! he stood up happily. He loved his boots and pads and his owners were thrilled. We will trim him in 3 weeks and not allow his feet to split and crack again. He will probably grow in a good strong wall and be fine barefoot until they ask him for higher performance. I already gave the speech that he might need shoes again one day but for now, let's fix his feet and get him comfortable again and reevaluate in the future.
          Hey, putting a foot in balance is always a good thing. I can't speak about shoes vs. no shoes, except for what I saw ing the vid of this horse. Too many fractures can result if left alone. Heck, for the horse, I'll continue to pray that there aren't any fractures.

          Originally posted by Daydream Believer
          He was barefoot from the previous farrier who gave up when she could not keep shoes on him. That was the only "fix" she knew and it failed. He walked off landing flat and sound also without the boots so he was not lame after my trim but greatly improved as he walked in landing toe first and shuffling. Amazing what a good trim can do to help a horse's comfort.
          You get no arguments out of me about terrible fariery. A hack darned near killed mine. Severely impaired him instead.

          Originally posted by Daydream Believer
          I'm not a barefoot only person. I am fine with properly applied shoes used over a good trim for a good reason. I am not fine with 90% of the crappy work I see every day.
          I am a barefoot only person! But that's because there are truly no farriers in my area. And Jaye, once again, brought me a horse that can do this.

          But, I know what you meant, and that's why Bo stayed shod. And shod by Jaye only. Period.
          RIP Bo, the real Appassionato
          5/5/84-7/12/08

          Comment


          • #45
            I don't even know what to say about these fights anymore, except UGH. All we can really do is just walk away from the argument. They're going to fight us on this any way it goes. Ohhhhhh well.....
            Eventing-A-Gogo: Adventures of a Barefoot Event Horse and her Human
            The Reeling: An Unexpected Mareventure

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by J.D. View Post
              I didn't call you a 'Troll", you did it to me. I applauded the "accolade".

              You can't have it both ways; defending bad trimming and then straddling the fence on both farriery and trimming.
              I called you a troll because that is what you came here to do. To start a fight...am I correct? I think so!

              I'm not defending that trimmer...where did I do that? I think it is awful work.

              My point is and remains that would you be as pissed off if it was another farrier that screwed that horse up so badly? It doesn't seem like it or you'd come here with pics of the bad trims done by farriers also....you didn't though and you never have before that I recall. You only came with pic of bad work from a trimmer...so HOW is that not trolling?

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #47
                Daydream Believer-If you read what I wrote earlier, you'd see that he was sound barefoot and improved dramatically with trim. I recommended boots for him for work only. Better yet his owners can take them OFF when he doesn't need them (unlike nailed on shoes) and they will work on his thin torn up walls where shoes would not work
                Doen't need appliances? Work only? The horse in the vid is turned out on a "Putting Green" turnout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                If the horse needs appliances , the horse needs appliances. If the horse doesn't "limp" with appliances in work, you think he is 100% comfortable without applainces in turnout? Nah just a bit short strided in relaxation






                .
                BTW...they tried glue ons and that did not work either. Like I said...I often get called in to help where traditional farriers fail.... It's a shame the farrier just did not trim properly to begin with as I doubt he'll need shoes for light work once he grows some good solid wall down.
                Having it both ways again to placate your position; geezz!

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #48
                  Originally posted by LMH View Post
                  What is up with this JD...trimmed on the 16th? That is just a couple of days ago and there does not seem to be a clean rasp stroke on the entire wall?

                  I said the same, "WTF"!.

                  Other pics show a few rasp marks. What got me was the un-clean frogs and other portions of the foot(feets).

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #49
                    Here is a pic of #2 horse:

                    http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...oot1008011.jpg[/IMG]

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      JD, the whole premise of this thread is just ridiculous. Quite frankly the story makes no sense, and it's hardly indicative of many barefoot trimmers' work.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        Originally posted by canticle View Post
                        I'd like to know the definition of "lunatic fringe." Is that what you call someone who disagrees with you? Pretty weak if you ask me!

                        $10 it was JD/Tom who originally trimmed the horse in the video. He is the type who would do a crap trim job on purpose, as a way of "proving" that horses "need" shoes.

                        $10,000k says i haven't touch any of the three in 90 days. I will bet you your $10 versus my $10k; let's play!!!!!

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Appassionato View Post
                          Edge of P3 pushing against the sole? Or just a flat footed horse? Not being a jerk, I've owned both...in the same horse (different times ).
                          The horse in the vid looks laminitic...actively so. That ridge was from P3 and there is probably distal descent...a sinker if you will. It is very very serious. The horse I did today was not in any crisis...he was flatfooted with badly flared and chipped walls that were markedly higher on one side than another. I did not touch his sole but after removing the flared walls and rollign the edge, I adjusted his outside heels (the high side) and brought him into lateral balance. He had badly folded over bars that I also trimmed a bit. He was immediately more comfortable. Think of those chipped and breaking off pieces of hoof wall like hangnails. It's very uncomfortable for the horse and when allowed to do that, it keeps a horse from growing a solid connection and thickening the wall. It's a nasty cycle that repeats and repeats if it's not addressed.



                          Originally posted by Appassionato View Post
                          Hey, putting a foot in balance is always a good thing. I can't speak about shoes vs. no shoes, except for what I saw ing the vid of this horse. Too many fractures can result if left alone. Heck, for the horse, I'll continue to pray that there aren't any fractures.
                          This horse lives in a sandy loam pasture with no rocks. He is very unlikely to fracture himself in that environment. He will ONLY work in the boots for now until we build some concavity and some sole/walls.


                          I'm sure Jaye is a wonderful farrier but all he came here to do was pick a fight and that is wrong. I could have put up the pics of that horse I did today on Horseshoes or on here and bitched about farriers. I did not do that because I did not want to pick a fight.

                          Bad work is bad work and it should not be tolerated. Unfortunately, the farrier who screwed up my new clients horse is still in business and will continue to be in business as is that trimmer JD is cleaning up behind. Stopping this sort of thing is terribly hard. I don't have an answer.

                          I will also say that Ramey would be shocked and horrified at that trim. That was NOT a Ramey endorsed trim. Lots of people claim that because he's well known and respected and did lots of clinics but if you buy his DVD's and watch them, you will see a much different picture.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                            Doen't need appliances? Work only? The horse in the vid is turned out on a "Putting Green" turnout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                            Read for comprehension please...I was talking about the horse I trimmed today...not the one in your video.






                            .

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              blah blah blah! yada yada yada!
                              Eric Russell CJF

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Rienzi View Post
                                But the point is, all this finger-pointing and name calling is ridiculous. AND VERY TIRESOME!! There are bad trimmers. There are bad shoers. Blanket statements are generally worthless, as well as inflamatory, because every horse is an individual. If everybody kept that in mind then the horses would be the winners.
                                Oh my goodness thank you for the sanity in this ridiculous discussion! It took me forever to understand what was actually going on in this thread, and then when I figured it out I was even more disturbed!

                                Some horses need shoes, some don't. I've seen plenty of horses who have competed barefoot, and plenty more who need shoes all the time. And there have been PLENTY of bad farriers and trimmers, and loads of good ones too! So what exactly is the point here? Pointing out the job of one bad trimmer and then stating that barefoot people need to stop? Geez it's not a cult, it's a choice... which often ends well and sometimes ends badly, the same as shoeing.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #56
                                  Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
                                  JD, the whole premise of this thread is just ridiculous. Quite frankly the story makes no sense, and it's hardly indicative of many barefoot trimmers' work.
                                  Exactly, and most farrier's work is not indicative of what is premised in the majority of barefoot propoganda!!!

                                  Like i said, "Farriers bringing bad trimming to the forefront is like trimmers bringing bad fariery to the forefront"~~~~~ Hey "fringe" how does it feel?

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by ellemayo View Post
                                    Oh my goodness thank you for the sanity in this ridiculous discussion! It took me forever to understand what was actually going on in this thread, and then when I figured it out I was even more disturbed!

                                    Some horses need shoes, some don't. I've seen plenty of horses who have competed barefoot, and plenty more who need shoes all the time. And there have been PLENTY of bad farriers and trimmers, and loads of good ones too! So what exactly is the point here? Pointing out the job of one bad trimmer and then stating that barefoot people need to stop? Geez it's not a cult, it's a choice... which often ends well and sometimes ends badly, the same as shoeing.


                                    Another air of sanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      quick note to original poster:

                                      #1 have a point.

                                      #2 attempt to state your point clearly.

                                      #3 show some respect for other posters and yourself by using good grammar and spelling.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        there is a fundamental difference between some farriers and trimmers. You have to give the horse what it needs. The owner is the horses own worst enemy in most cases. If the owner wants shoes when the horse doesn't need them, its not a problem. When the trimmer wants to maintain barefoot when the owner isn't going to use boots (if they need them) its a problem!
                                        Eric Russell CJF

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by eruss View Post
                                          If the owner wants shoes when the horse doesn't need them, its not a problem.
                                          Why not? I think keeping horses in shoes that don't need them is no better than keeping them barefoot when they need more protection or traction than boots or barefoot can manage. A good farrier will not shoe a horse just because the owner wants them or thinks they need them. It is expensive and shoes are not without some drawbacks in long term hoof health.

                                          I had a good farrier some years ago who talked me out of shoeing a horse that had excellent feet that my trainer wanted shod...."just because all horses in work needed shoes" I'm very glad he did that now looking back. Horse is sound and happy and in work 3 years later and barefoot. Has never needed a shoe and probably never will.

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