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Tapeworms-do they cause weight loss?

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  • Tapeworms-do they cause weight loss?

    We recently moved and some of my horses aren't doing as well at the new place and I can't figure out why. One thing that recently came to mind was that the place was over run with deer before we got here and that made me think of tapeworms; something that we haven't had to worm for in the past. Could it be causing hard keepers? They've been wormed with ivermectin and Quest in the last year but not for tapes.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

  • #2
    Yes, they do cause weight loss.
    Many moons ago obese people were given tape worms to loose weight. To remove the tape worm they would make the person fast for several days then tangle a piece of food over the person's open mouth to lure the hungry tape worm out.
    Dawn

    Patience and Consistency are Your Friends

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    • Original Poster

      #3
      mmmmkay.

      In my research on tapes in horses colic is mentioned as a symptom but not so much the antique human weight loss program.
      “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

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      • #4
        "Unthriftiness" is an old term I've seen written regarding tapes. They do rob the host of needed nutrients and probably calories, set up a low grade inflammation where they attach and of course a large mass of them is dangerous in itself.

        I was under the impression that Ivermectin is the dewormer of choice for tapes and bots, given in the Fall.
        Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
        Incredible Invisible

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        • #5
          Praziquantel for tapes, which is in Quest PLUS, not regular Quest. Deworming for tapes would be a good idea. I also think deer are associated with some other disease. Lepto, perhaps?

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          • Original Poster

            #6
            I keep seeing catch-all phrases like "unthriftiness" too... and I just read an article that said flat out that they don't cause weight loss.

            Zimectrin Gold will treat tapes; the wormer has to have praziquantel in it.

            I'm researching as I go here and the tapes hit enough of the mark that I want to worm for them.

            Added question then, if I think they may have them (and there's a good chance of it), what's the safest way to worm them, go straight to zimectrin gold? Quest plus? Equimax?
            “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

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            • #7
              Yes, tapes can cause “un-thriftiness” like any other parasite loads can.

              Ivermectin is not effective for tapes as I understand. I admit to having an “old School” de-worming rotation (having been a horse owner in the 80’s and 90’s with a hiatus through the early 2000’s when these new drugs came out), and I use a DOUBLE dose of pyrantel pamoate for tapes (which are not a big issue in our area)

              Double doses are even sold as “TapeCare Plus

              (some other brands sell double doses in a single syringe as well)
              APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

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              • #8
                If they started doing poorly at a new place, then I would also want to look at pasture management and what kind of program the other horses they are exposed to, are on. Unless you think they have a severe worm load, then I would Double Dose with EquiMax. It's the same ingredients as Zemectrin Gold, except that Zem. Gold has been known to cause mouth ulcers, and since they are are the same price, why bother with the added risk? I think a Double Dose of Strongid will also get rid of Tapes...
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                • #9
                  You should deworm for tapes at the first hard freeze in the fall and at the thaw in the spring. I have found the best results with Quest plus or a double dose of strongid.
                  Derby Lyn Farms Website

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                  • #10
                    Tapes *can* cause weight loss, rather than "tapes do cause weight loss". More than one healthy-weight (or fat), shiny-coated horse has ended up on the table for colic due to tapeworms.

                    Montana is a state with a high enough tapeworm prevalence you should be killing them at least once a year. If your snow cover is long enough, then Winter presents a very minimal risk

                    I would not just DD Equimax for anything other than a neck threadworm issue - there is nothing about it that's going to kill more strongyles or tapeworms than a single dose will

                    And yes, a double dose of pyrantel pamoate will also kill tapeworms
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Makes sense. I worry about killing off a heavy worm load if that's what it is but I suppose there is not easing in to it, just get it done.

                      This place used to be a horse boarding and lesson barn. Lots of horses went through here all the time but it was vacant for the last three years, horses haven't been on it for the last 8-10 years I believe. Deer and wild turkeys took it over in the meantime. Pastures aren't much, under the trees and some open grass. We feed hay year round and they fiddle on the pasture for fun. At first all we could find was local grass and now we've found some good alfalfa/timothy that is good clean quality hay. Nearly free choice. The amount or type of feed doesn't seem to have made any difference to the ones that dropped off. They don't mix with other horses. Some of the horses here have done fine the entire time, no problems.

                      ETA Where we lived before it was the polar opposite of this area, though we were still in Montana. Here it is PNW weather, humid, wet, short winters, lots of critters and plants. Where we lived before it was basically high desert, no deer, very cold winters and windy, harsh environment with no other animals in the horse pasture ever. We had horses there for 15 years and never encountered a problem like this.

                      I feel like a dummy for not picking up on this sooner.
                      Last edited by cowboymom; Mar. 15, 2013, 03:20 PM.
                      “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

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                      • #12
                        Since ivermectin and moxidectin have been used in the last year, the chances of a high worm load is very small.

                        Fortunately for us, though not always fortunately in some situations, all tapeworm treatments (dd pyrantel pamoate and praziquantel) are still very effective, so you can't sort of ease into killing them like you can with strongyles.

                        The best thing is to put your vet on notice, saying you think there's a possibility of a large tapeworm load, and do your deworming. That way the vet will be aware of a (slight) potential for colic issues.
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                        • #13
                          Cowboymom, your climate is like ours. We usually do Quest Plus (for nonpregnant mares) in November and then they're done until April because the winter is severe enough that nothing survives in the manure.

                          We do the first deworming in late March or early April depending on how the weather is going (when nights are still well below freezing) to reduce the risk of reinfection when everything turns to goo and we can't get the tractor in to plow it out.

                          Your best bet is to try to get manure samples taken in for testing.This will tell you what your horse is harboring and could save you money in the long run.

                          All parasites can cause unthriftiness and can cause weight loss. And all parasites do whopping amounts of damage to various parts of the body - not just the intestine, but also the cardiovascular system, the lungs, sometimes the eyes, wherever something happens to get stuck, or tries to burrow through to get out, etc.
                          Practice! Patience! Persistence!
                          http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/
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                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            leap-frogging posts!

                            OK this all makes good sense.

                            Good to know the dd of pp is effective.

                            I don't really have a vet here-there is an old school cow vet that will look at horses too but I don't think he even has a lab. He's new to town and isn't entirely set up yet. The closest horse vet is 90 miles away. But I do what I can for heightened awareness... even if it involves a road trip.
                            “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rodawn View Post
                              Cowboymom, your climate is like ours. We usually do Quest Plus (for nonpregnant mares) in November and then they're done until April because the winter is severe enough that nothing survives in the manure.
                              Actually, cold doesn't kill them There is nowhere in the US that is remotely cold enough to kill them. They simply hibernate and don't mature to the infectious stage while temps are below 45. Above 45 they slooooowly start to have the ability to morph into the larval stage, and that increases with the temps until about 85, where prolonged exposure to 85* temps will actually start killing them.

                              Your best bet is to try to get manure samples taken in for testing.This will tell you what your horse is harboring and could save you money in the long run.
                              True, the program should be based on FECs, but they won't show tapes uless you're lucky

                              All parasites can cause unthriftiness and can cause weight loss. And all parasites do whopping amounts of damage to various parts of the body - not just the intestine, but also the cardiovascular system, the lungs, sometimes the eyes, wherever something happens to get stuck, or tries to burrow through to get out, etc.
                              Absolutely - too many body parts that can become permanently damaged by prolonged infestations
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                I wormed them but I totally whiffed on the tapeworm aspect of it.

                                I really don't think we had them where we lived before-the pasture was like a parking lot, hard packed clay and the temps ranged from -40 (for what it's worth) to 100* in the summer.

                                It's my bad for not thinking of new parasites in a new place.
                                “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by JB View Post
                                  Actually, cold doesn't kill them There is nowhere in the US that is remotely cold enough to kill them. They simply hibernate and don't mature to the infectious stage while temps are below 45. Above 45 they slooooowly start to have the ability to morph into the larval stage, and that increases with the temps until about 85, where prolonged exposure to 85* temps will actually start killing them.
                                  Sorry, not true.

                                  Adult or juvenile tapeworms cannot survive outside a host. If they are expelled, they die very quickly. Eggs are shed in segments which drop out through the feces and infect the soil, water, and whatever else they come in contact with. They can only develop if ingested in temperatures above freezing where they hatch and grow in the gut of the host.

                                  The eggs do not cope well with freezing temperatures. Montana, like Alberta, gets very cold. This is also why experts will tell you sushi, raw fish, is safe to eat only IF it has been frozen prior. Not frozen, sushi is an excellent way to pick up tapeworm. Tapeworm eggs can quite happily transfer and live in just about any species of host, they're not too fussy and a dog can share his tapeworm with a horse or with you just as easily as your cat can.
                                  Practice! Patience! Persistence!
                                  http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/
                                  https://www.facebook.com/MariposaSportHorses/

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                                  • #18
                                    Hey, I usually use Equimax but it costs three times as much as the plain ivermectin and I didn't pay attention to the praziquantel being in there for a reason, so my guys got $3 ivermectin this year. False economy, anyone?
                                    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                                    Incredible Invisible

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                                    • #19
                                      I would use either Quest Plus or Equimax. I do not use Zimectrin gold for the reasons stated above and because I had a colic following its use on a horse I had owned and dewormed for several years. Still do not know the cause of the colic, not an impaction. That's enough for me.

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                                      • #20
                                        In MN. I use the rotation rec'd by my vet & BO. We use the Zim. gold in fall & spring.

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