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Tapeworms-do they cause weight loss?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by rodawn View Post
    Sorry, not true.

    Adult or juvenile tapeworms cannot survive outside a host. If they are expelled, they die very quickly.
    Right, this applies to any of the parasites. They need a host to survive as adults.

    Eggs are shed in segments which drop out through the feces and infect the soil, water, and whatever else they come in contact with. They can only develop if ingested in temperatures above freezing where they hatch and grow in the gut of the host.

    The eggs do not cope well with freezing temperatures. Montana, like Alberta, gets very cold. This is also why experts will tell you sushi, raw fish, is safe to eat only IF it has been frozen prior. Not frozen, sushi is an excellent way to pick up tapeworm. Tapeworm eggs can quite happily transfer and live in just about any species of host, they're not too fussy and a dog can share his tapeworm with a horse or with you just as easily as your cat can.
    But, I was not talking just about tapeworms. Strongyles are an issue as well
    http://books.google.com/books?id=V2x...ngyles&f=false
    "In colder climates, the freezing temperatures will not kill strongyle eggs and the larvae can persist over the Winter"

    The biggest issue with tapeworms is the mites which carry them. Horses don't get tapeworms from eating egg segments - eating them would digest them. This means you can have the cleanest pasture around, but that grass is still going to harbor the mites, so tapeworms are a risk.

    Same with the strongyle eggs - eating them digests them, it's the larva of strongyles that has to be ingested, which is why the temperature range - 45-85 - is important in evaluating infection risk.

    The tapeworm HAS to use the mite as the intermediary host for the horse - mite eats the egg, the egg develops in the mite, and that is what gets ingested by the horse and infects him.

    So, if the horse basically never eats off the ground, even if he's in a high risk area, the risk of tapeworms is very low. The mites prefer grass, so places that are dry lots, whether by design or by nature, have low exposure.

    If cold temps kill the mites, that's a different story

    http://www.aaep.org/health_articles_...ly=true&id=256
    "Horse tapeworms are also unique in that they require an intermediate host, the oribatid (forage) mite, to complete their life cycle. Tapeworm eggs are passed with the manure of infected horses onto pasture, where forage mites ingest them. The immature tapeworm develops within the body cavity of the mite and is ingested by the grazing horse. When the horse digests the infested forage mite, the tapeworm is released and within 6-10 weeks develops into an adult that attaches to the horse’s intestine and the cycle starts all over again."
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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    • #22
      The equine tapeworms are Anoplocephala perfoliata, A magna, and Paranoplocephala mamillana, with the perfoliata being the most common in the US.

      Those are different from the canine or feline tapes, Dipylidium caninum (both cats and dogs) and Dibothriocephalus latus and Spirometra mansonoides for cats. They don't share tapes, either species or transmission, with horses Even those have an intermediary host - the dogs/cats don't eat the tapeworm eggs, they get them from fleas or lice

      Taenia taeniaformis is another type of tapeworm that one would get from uncooked meat/fish, or mice, etc - not going to be an issue for horses, but obviously one for cats/dogs.
      ______________________________
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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      • #23
        Spring is when dung beetles (very beneficial!!!) are most active. Moxidectin does not kill dung beetles.

        Ivermectin kills them splat

        So, if you have options, use Quest Plus in Spring to leave the beetles alone. Use Equimax in the Fall when they aren't a big issue.

        I too will never use Zimecterin Gold, not as long as Merial refuses to change whatever it is about the carrier ingredients that causes ulcerations
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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        • Original Poster

          #24
          JB thanks a ton for the info! I did notice that my typically worm resistant horses were the ones that didn't drop any weight. I used to do fecals on everyone when I worked at a vet clinic and had been tracking them; that was only a few years ago and I remember that vet saying we didn't need to worry about tapes in our area but I can't say he was super well-informed on the topic. I had been doing some research on the subject when I realized what I was probably dealing with but it kept seeming like colic kept being more of a symptom and we haven't had any colic at all. No diarrhea, no swelling; the horses have been bright and playing and energetic through the whole thing, just thin.

          But what you say about the environment and conditions for tapes fits this place perfectly. The temperature ranges are ideal, the deer exposure, the whole thing.

          I'll be doing the Quest Plus for them this spring. I did do the thinnest one and the oldest horse (33! not unusually thin but I knew she didn't have the margin to deal with a bad worm load) with the dd of pyrantel a couple weeks ago on a "just in case" basis from my reading here and they are showing improvement. I have just one more that I want to see improvement on and then I'll keep everyone in order.

          I appreciate all the information!
          “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

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          • #25
            Check w/ your vet, but my understanding is that Quest Plus can be dangerous for underweight horses.
            Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Hippolyta View Post
              In MN. I use the rotation rec'd by my vet & BO. We use the Zim. gold in fall & spring.
              Rotational deworming is not the latest recommendation. From the AAEP website: "Rotating anti-parasitic products every so often is slowly fading into history due to the new information available to veterinarians and horse owners. To increase efficacy, I am now recommending having fecal egg counts performed on horses before deworming. By doing this, we are decreasing the chances of parasite resistance which will keep our current dewormers working longer. Unfortunately, once the parasites become resistant to the deworming products on the market now, we will not have anything effective to keep our horses safe from intestinal worms. When we reach that point, more horses will become anemic and have greater risks of dying. To avoid getting to that stage, I highly recommend fecal egg counts. I am also having clients tell me that they are saving money by not having to deworm as often. I should also mention that pasture rotation is very important for horses that are constantly having a high fecal egg count and are needing to be dewormed several times a year."

              Also, as others have noted, Zimectrin Gold has been shown to cause many horses to develop mouth & esophogeal ulcers. Why risk it, when Equimax has the exact same dewormers (ivermectin & praziquantel) but does not cause the ulcers?
              Topline Leather -- Bespoke, handwoven browbands & accessories customized with Swarovski crystals, gemstones, & glass seed beads. The original crystal braid & crystal spike browbands!

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              • #27
                Originally posted by JB View Post
                Spring is when dung beetles (very beneficial!!!) are most active. Moxidectin does not kill dung beetles.

                Ivermectin kills them splat
                That's good to know.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by ldaziens View Post
                  Check w/ your vet, but my understanding is that Quest Plus can be dangerous for underweight horses.
                  Yes, but "underweight" is a bit subjective A bit ribby isn't underweight in this context. Low 3 BCS, yes, I would avoid it like the plague

                  Moxidectin is stored in fat and released slowly, which is one reason it lasts in the system for about 12 weeks. The less body fat a horse has, the more you are "overdosing" him with a dose-by-weight.
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                  • #29
                    For how long does ivermectin in horse dewormers kill dung beetles?

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                    • Original Poster

                      #30
                      They're 3 or 4-ish. Hard to tell with their winter coats they look light to normal until you touch them. I'm careful about Quest.

                      Ideally I do fecals and worm appropriately; here as I already said the vet care is limited. I know which of the horses are prone to worms and which are naturally resistant and I know I have a mare that needs a power pac or such once a year.

                      I like to save Quest as a wormer that I haven't used so I have an alternative if we run into something that seems resistant. There aren't a lot of horses here and not many people that are real up on their worming programs.
                      “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
                        For how long does ivermectin in horse dewormers kill dung beetles?
                        The only thing I've seen on it (and I haven't looked terribly hard) is that ivermectin in sheep manure says the half life is 7-10 days. But, I don't know at what level it's safe for the beetles.

                        Originally posted by cowboymom View Post
                        They're 3 or 4-ish. Hard to tell with their winter coats they look light to normal until you touch them. I'm careful about Quest.
                        If 3 is possible, then I wouldn't use Quest

                        Ideally I do fecals and worm appropriately; here as I already said the vet care is limited. I know which of the horses are prone to worms and which are naturally resistant and I know I have a mare that needs a power pac or such once a year.

                        I like to save Quest as a wormer that I haven't used so I have an alternative if we run into something that seems resistant. There aren't a lot of horses here and not many people that are real up on their worming programs.
                        If you use Quest just once a year, that's not over-doing it and will take the place of a Power Pack, and is highly, highly unlikely to lead to a resistance issue

                        You can use Horseman's Lab to do mail-order FECs. Without FECs, you truly don't know which horses are prone to worms. As well, with the Power Pack, you don't know if you have fenbendazole-resistant worms on your property without a FEC and FECRT, so the PP could be for nothing, or not doing a good job. If there aren't a lot of horses, the odds of having a high resistance is lower, but you still don't know.
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                        • #32
                          Whatever you choose avoid Zimectrin Gold.

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                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Posting on here is always such a sticky wicket! lol It's hard to put the whole picture out there in a few paragraphs.

                            I have the same horses that I had when I was running the fecals but of course the worms and location are different now but my worm resistant horses are still the ones that look the best now. The one mare that is prone to the small strongles got a power pack the first time around and now she gets Quest instead. She's not one of the thin ones, she looks great. She used to be our only one that we had to worry about her weight. There are eight of them, all different ages and breeds. Most of them we've had for many years, one for a year and a half and one for almost a year. All were very very healthy and in good weight before we got here.

                            I am not considering Zimectrin Gold, heard too much about the mouth sores for too long. After hemming and hawing about dung beetles and safety the end result was I got Equimax for them. Like I said, Quest makes me nervous though I've never had a problem with it.

                            I'm going to check with the vet and see if he's set up for fecals yet and then send out if he isn't. Before deworming. Guesswork is as expensive as vet work. But if it's tapes they we'd be lucky if they showed up, right?

                            I'll report back.
                            “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

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