• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Gastrogard for all horses?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Gastrogard for all horses?

    I have 2 horses that show, one is a senior been there done that, the other is younger but has had about 8 years in the show ring. My trainer started all the horses at the stable on gastro gard since they are showing. Even though we dont suspect ulcers, does anyone have a logical reason as to why they would need to be on it? I dont want to offend my trainer by questioning her as there must be a reason!

  • #2
    A huge percentage of horses have ulcers, especially those actively competing. So a course of GG (28 days) would not be a bad thing if they are showing signs [or if you scope them and find some]. However, long-term use has been linked to colonic ulcers. There is also evidence in human medicine that it decreases the body's ability to absorb calcium. So it would not be something I kept my horses on long-term. Plus, its not cheap!

    Edited to add: if its JUST for the times you are showing (say starting a couple days before leaving and continuing until you get back), then yes, I think that's a good idea if you can afford it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Showing = stress and stress = ulcers. There are a ton of studies out there that demonstrate something as simple as a trailer ride can cause ulcers in horses, even if they don't show symptoms.

      I wouldn't want my show horse on omeprazole year round, but starting it a couple days before the horse is trailered, continuing through the show and ending a day or two after the horse returns to the barn is not unreasonable.

      You probably would not need a full, treatment dose, though. The Ulcergard preventative dose would likely be sufficient, unless the horse is known to have ulcer problems.

      Comment


      • #4
        Personally I would not want a horse on omeprazole longterm, shortterm as in 28 days or double that to treat absolutely, longterm, I'm leery.

        In humans there is some indication longterm use leads to Mg deficiency.
        And I would not want my horse to have reduced gastric acidity prolonged either, imm it will have an effect on the digestion of feedstuffs once past the stomach.
        Protein breakdown already starts in the stomach and than futher in the small intestine. Longterm PPI use is likely to have an affect on such.
        Just google longterm risk PPI use and have a read.
        Just the first one that'll show up :
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton-pump_inhibitor

        If this is going to be a longterm thing you may want to suggest trainer looks into products containing lecithin, such as Egusin or Starting Gate. Some indication after 5 weeks this is helpful too :

        http://www.thehorse.com/articles/312...cers-aaep-2012

        http://gettyequinenutrition.biz/Libr...atedUlcers.htm

        Comment


        • #5
          I wouldn't do a full 28 day treatment on a horse that isn't showing any problems... that'll run you around $1000! However I do give my OTTB the preventative UG dosage when we are going to shows, and I think it's probably a good idea for any horse. For a 4 day show I'll end up using 2 tubes, and if I get them on sale, that's only $70, which is totally worth it IMO.
          "Sometimes the fear won't go away... so you just have to do it afraid."

          Trolls be trollin'! -DH

          Comment


          • #6
            Overmedication has risks, just as undermedication does.

            Use medications to treat illness that has been demonstrated.

            G.
            Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RottiMom View Post
              Even though we dont suspect ulcers, does anyone have a logical reason as to why they would need to be on it?
              Yes, to PREVENT them from getting them. I learned the hard way in thinking that my "been there, done that, calm as a cucumber" horse wouldn't get them while I was competing her... www.photobucket.com/ulcers Everything in her management style at the time was good for preventing ulcers: turnout, forage, no grain diet, etc. I am certain that the stress of trailering/competing is what did it.

              Showing = stress and stress = ulcers. There are a ton of studies out there that demonstrate something as simple as a trailer ride can cause ulcers in horses, even if they don't show symptoms.

              I wouldn't want my show horse on omeprazole year round, but starting it a couple days before the horse is trailered, continuing through the show and ending a day or two after the horse returns to the barn is not unreasonable.

              You probably would not need a full, treatment dose, though. The Ulcergard preventative dose would likely be sufficient, unless the horse is known to have ulcer problems.
              What Simkie said, 110%. Now, neither horse steps foot on a trailer without having either Abler's omeprazole granules started the day before, day of, and day after traveling, and if I don't have those on hand, they get Ranitidine.
              "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Guilherme View Post

                Use medications to treat illness that has been demonstrated.

                G.
                Or to prevent illnesses before they get to the point of being demonstrated, as a preventative dose of omeprazole or ranitidine would do.

                OP - I wouldn't use it long term meaning daily for the course of the show season. I would use the preventative dose during specific times of stress, like trailering/showing. A day or two after they get home from the show, stop the omeprazole, until the next time you'll be showing.
                "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Eventer13 View Post
                  Plus, its not cheap!
                  Understatement of the year! Isn't it still like $32/day??
                  I would only do a full 28-day treatment if I had strong suspicion of ulcers due to the cost-prohibitive nature of the treatment alone. To even consider constantly giving it throughout show season??? No way.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    First, what dose? Gastroguard and Ulcerguard are the same thing. 1/4 syringe per day for a horse up to 1200 lbs. is the preventative dose. 1 full syringe per day for a horse up to 1200 lbs. is the curative dose.

                    No, I wouldn't do a 28-day+ treatment dose unless I had reason to suspect ulcers.

                    No, I wouldn't keep a horse with no previous history of ulcers on the preventative dose for show season just to prevent ulcers. Long term omeprazola use can have side effects.

                    Yes, I would consider giving a preventative dose for shipping/showing. Research shows that it takes 1-4 days for omeprazole to reach full effectiveness. Therefore, giving it just the day before isn't good enough.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A blanket policy of doing the same thing for all individuals "just because" is RARELY smart, unless one is talking about seat belts or not smoking. I'd consider that sort of policy sloppy and expensive.

                      I do give it a day or two before shipping to one of mine and feel that it's worth doing for him. I don't bother with my mare, who is not a worrier. I don't feel it's necessary to treat for several days, even though that's the time frame when "optimum" acid suppression takes places. I'm just wanting to tip the balance in my favor slightly with my non-ulcer animals who are simply being exposed to predictable but extra stress.
                      Click here before you buy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would not like my horse on it unless there is a reason. Besides its $$$. I prefer pre/probiotics for my horse vs an Rx for long term care.

                        I do think a concern about ulcers is valid, its good to consult a vet and keep on top of it. Much for me would depend on the daily routine and if the horse is in a daily schooling schedule. I build in a lot of variety for my horse.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Eventer13 View Post
                          AHowever, long-term use has been linked to colonic ulcers.
                          What????

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I can see that as a possibility.
                            Less stomach acid, higher stomach PH, foodstuffs are less broken down when they enter the small intestine, as a result the protein & starches will be not be as efficiently digested in the small intestine and travel thru to the hindgut (where they are not supposed to be), as a result those protein & starches sit to ferment in the hindgut dropping the PH of the hindgut, creating more lactic acid bacteria, -some with more knowledge will surely chime in-, but this could well be a recipe to cause or worsen hindgut ulcers.
                            Again the aciditiy of the stomach is what it is, so foods would be broken down as they are supposed to be, you start messing with this over long periods of time, it effects things further down the line.
                            So you want your horse on Omeprazole longterm, you may well want to add some Equishure to balance that gut PH .

                            In the end management is key .

                            http://www.aerc.org/ENNov05Ed.asp
                            Last edited by Lieslot; Feb. 28, 2013, 04:54 PM. Reason: added link

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Okay, found some more explanation on what I was trying to describe above about reducing stomach acid (via omeprazole & other) and the alterartion of PH in the hindgut and its effects or possible ill effects .

                              http://www.quia.com/files/quia/users...trition/Ulcers

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Lieslot View Post
                                So you want your horse on Omeprazole longterm, you may well want to add some Equishure to balance that gut PH
                                Since Equishure, IIRC, is a bicarbonate-type buffer that is supposed to RAISE the pH, I would think that this would be redundant/counterintuitive if the concern is that omeprazole was raising the pH of the gut lumen TOO much.

                                I was under the impression that Equishure was more for problems of hindgut acidity, not hindgut alkalinity from too much stomach acid blocking.
                                Click here before you buy.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
                                  Or to prevent illnesses before they get to the point of being demonstrated, as a preventative dose of omeprazole or ranitidine would do.

                                  OP - I wouldn't use it long term meaning daily for the course of the show season. I would use the preventative dose during specific times of stress, like trailering/showing. A day or two after they get home from the show, stop the omeprazole, until the next time you'll be showing.
                                  OK, prophylaxis.

                                  What's the protocol? Got any evidence that it works?

                                  Note the comments toward the end of the thread by Lieslot and Deltawave.

                                  G.
                                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Yes Equishure will raise the PH, which could be indicated when treating with Omeprazole and thereby raising the PH of the stomach, hence less digestion in the small intestine of proteins & starches, (especially proteins start their breakdown in the stomach with the enzyme pepsin) latter two end up in the hindgut to ferment instead of having been digested in the SI, the fermentation of protein & starches causes a rapid release of VFA's (volatile fatty acids), which as a results causes a drop of PH in the large intestine, you also get more lactic acid bacteria thriving, which lowers the PH even more, you also get a die off from the good microbials, again lowering the PH. You want the hindgut PH to be around 6 to 7, so you'd like to raise the PH by adding protected sodium bicarbonate.
                                    Again any nutritionists, chime in & correct me if I'm wrong. The last article I linked also explains it in a similar way I thought.

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X