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Thoughts/ opinions on this hoof trim? (COTH Curmudgeon Farrier Crew, where are you?)

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  • Thoughts/ opinions on this hoof trim? (COTH Curmudgeon Farrier Crew, where are you?)

    Horse is a ~13 y/o draft cross mare, 15.1 hands and good weight, currently on stall rest for a hind leg splint injury. Photo was taken same day as trim.

    http://tinypic.com/r/w98u1t/6

    Thanks!
    Last edited by baxtersmom; Feb. 21, 2013, 11:45 PM.

  • #2
    Is this a hind foot? Looks awfully clubby to me.
    "Sometimes the fear won't go away... so you just have to do it afraid."

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    Comment


    • #3
      Looks like he left a lot of foot that could have easily come off. He looks past due trimming, not like he just got trimmed.

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, I wouldn't be happy with the farrier, were it my horse. Seems awfully upright with a ton a heel. Is there a reason the hoof looks like that?

        Comment


        • #5
          The frog does not have ground contact-those heels are way too tall and need to come back. Broken forward HPA as a result and still a lot of hoof that needs to be trimmed. Was this a DIY trim?

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Thanks folks. I am testing my eyes so looking for input.

            Right front hoof. Left looks the same.

            No special trimming/ shoeing needs. Has been barefoot since November with no change in soundness when shoes were removed. Stall rest is due to broken splint bone (from a kick) removed from LH leg.

            Not a DIY trim... alas.

            I did double check but BO confirmed that the horse *was* trimmed yesterday, hours prior to photos.

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            • #7
              Yikes!

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              • #8
                Yeah, I would not be happy. Heels too long and too far forward, for sure. If you have a rasp and know how to use it, I would lower/pull the heels back a bit yourself.
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                • #9
                  That's one impressive split between the heel bulbs, ouch! Get that horse some thrush treatment and get someone to trim her heels!

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                  • #10
                    heels waaaay too long, frog needs to have contact with the ground. Definitely doesnt look like it was just done....yikes.
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                    • #11
                      Is it too late to get your money back?

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                      • #12
                        Though not a member of the curmudgeon crew - and at the risk of being body slammed - I'll say that while the photo shows a foot that definitely leaves a lot to be desired - with respects to what most of us consider a good looking foot to be - I don't think a trim can be fairly judged in a vacuum like this. Nobody knows what the "before" looked like. It could've been a truly horrendous foot So while not particularly great, whats being presented here might have been a huge improvement.

                        There was a comedian, I think Drew Carey, that made a joke about weight. Something to the extent of if a skinny person ever made a snippy comment about his weight he'd lie and say "well, I just lost 100lbs" The offending party would invariably answer "oh wow! Well in that case, you look great!" Relativity and all that good stuff.

                        I have a horse who developed a club foot in recent years resulting from an injury. I had a good farrier that always made his foot "look good" but the horse would be lame as heck on it. The reason I learned to trim was to help him, and he has since shown me that what makes him feel best isn't always the prettiest. But who am I to argue?
                        Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

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                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by buck22 View Post
                          Though not a member of the curmudgeon crew - and at the risk of being body slammed - I'll say that while the photo shows a foot that definitely leaves a lot to be desired - with respects to what most of us consider a good looking foot to be - I don't think a trim can be fairly judged in a vacuum like this. Nobody knows what the "before" looked like. It could've been a truly horrendous foot So while not particularly great, whats being presented here might have been a huge improvement.
                          Fair enough and good point In this case, the foot looked pretty much like it does now (in other words, this was not a remedial trim) and the horse was in work until a couple weeks ago when she got sassy with her pasturemate and got kicked in the LH. The same farrier has done this horse since she arrived last May.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Rick Burten View Post
                            Is it too late to get your money back?
                            Horsie doesn't belong to me... but I'll definitely mention it to her owner

                            Rick, would you be kind enough to outline what issues you see and how you would address them?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by baxtersmom View Post
                              Rick, would you be kind enough to outline what issues you see and how you would address them?
                              Though others have pretty well covered the things that stand out to me, I'll try. Before I do, let me say that I agree with buck22 that looking at the hoof in isolation with no real history of the horse, can skew the observations/evaluations. That said, The hoof is out of both medial-lateral(M/L) and anterior-posterior (A/P)balance. The heels are, for me, too tall and as a result, forward of where I like to see/put them, the frog is overgrown and the so are the bars. The tall heels force the horse to put a lot of weight in the toe area and consequentially could cause bruising, abscesses, p3 remodeling at its tip and general gait alteration which brings with it a host of other consequences to the body proper. The deep crevice in the central sulcus of the frog will be greatly reduced and?or eliminated by simply trimming the frog correctly. Since the hoof, especially the caudal third, seems long, it is forcing the hoof to grow like a narrow tube(though the heels don't appear contracted)and the rear view of the hoof gives me the impression that the walls are inside the vertical, though I don't think they would be or would remain that way once a "proper" trim was instituted.

                              At this point in time, The first thing I'd do is watch the horse walk and trot so I could see how it was tracking, swinging the limb, coming to the ground, etc. Then I'd use hoof testers to see what, if any reaction, I could elicit. I would be addressing the back third/half of the hoof and would not be doing much if anything to the front half/two thirds. I'd be re-trimming the frog and bars, mapping out where I wanted the heel buttress, and if there was a lot of retained sole, reducing it at least to some degree(remember, back half of the foot only). I get the impression that there may be a lateral cartilage issue on the lateral side as that side, above the coronary band/hoof capsule is swollen/distended in the area of the proximal end of the LC and the distal end of the wall appears to have an inward slant(/) rather than the normal (\) conformation/configuration.

                              Note: I am not talking about removing massive amounts of wall, bar, sole, hoof. Especially not all at once. Perhaps 1/4 inch then evaluate, then maybe a bit more and stop. Give the horse a few days and then re-evaluate and continue the process as necessary. For the time being, I would leave the anterior sole intact unless it started releasing of its own accord.

                              With all that said, with 'hoof in hand', my protocol might be somewhat different. As is ever true, "It Depends".....

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Thank you very much for your comprehensive reply, Rick, and for everyone's thoughts. I was trying to not say too much b/c I really wanted an unbiased opinion and did not want to influence what others might see/ say.

                                This horse belongs to a close friend who uses a different farrier than I do. Our (shared) trainer and I have been skeptical for months about the way this horse's feet (and others) look. The horses also seem to move with "exaggerated" (for them) knee movement and land flat-footed versus heel-first.

                                Friend is new to horse ownership but very smart, adores this mare, and wants to do *everything* to make sure this horse is correctly cared for. I only know what "correct" is from lots of reading/ watching/ pestering my own farrier and vet with constant questions. So I wanted to make sure it was not just a difference in "style" before recommending she seek a second opinion. She is also the kind of person who wants to know what "correct" would be, not just that something is off.

                                Thank you again everyone for taking the time to reply.

                                Since I put her farrier on the chopping block, here is one from mine. RF on 11 y/o TB gelding, this is his slightly more upright "grazing" hoof, halfway through a shoeing cycle, pads added for the first time ever due to frozen moonscape paddock surface. Sorry about the little manure clod on the toe
                                http://tinypic.com/r/230awn/6

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by baxtersmom View Post
                                  Since I put her farrier on the chopping block, here is one from mine. RF on 11 y/o TB gelding, this is his slightly more upright "grazing" hoof, halfway through a shoeing cycle, pads added for the first time ever due to frozen moonscape paddock surface.
                                  The two things that immediately caught my eye are the jamming(proximal displacement) of the coronary band and the lack of supplemental traction devices on the shoes.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Not the OP here, but can you (Rick!) explain what you mean by jammng of the coronary band?
                                    We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by 2tempe View Post
                                      Not the OP here, but can you (Rick!) explain what you mean by jammng of the coronary band?
                                      The coronary band does not 'fall' in a straight line fr0m toe to heel, rather it is proximally displaced(jammed upwards) caused by excessive loading of the wall distal to that point/location.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by buck22 View Post
                                        ...I don't think a trim can be fairly judged in a vacuum like this. Nobody knows what the "before" looked like. It could've been a truly horrendous foot So while not particularly great, whats being presented here might have been a huge improvement.
                                        This. Without knowing what the feet looked like before there's no way we can say if this was a good trim, or if the farrier knows what they are doing.
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