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Any of the hoof gurus care to comment on this?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Kolsch View Post
    Rick, type 2? Have you ever looked into HIIT training?
    I'm not sure how it would be categorized today. Started out as type 2 but has progressed(regressed?) beyond that and even with the insulin, it remains uncontrolled. I am now insulin dependent(Novolog and Lantus). Couldn't possibly be that I don't do much to control it could it? I didn't know what HIIT training was so I looked it up. Sounds like it would kill me before it cured me......but thanks for the recommendation. Sadly, where once I was an 'in shape' athletic type, I have , in my more senior years, become a more sedentary, curmudgeon rather arthritic, old man who thinks that a good aerobic exercise is popping the top on a can of Schlitz and then doing 12 oz curls, and a great anaerobic exercise is blinking...............And, in between those two exercises, trimming and shoeing horses........

    Comment


    • #62
      I noticed in the links provided regarding minimalist shoes and heel pain, yeah its true. You cannot land heel first in those shoes or you are going to be hurt. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out, since there's no padding there at all. I think even vibrams has a note in the box that you can't run like you do with shoes as you do with the 5 fingers, but not sure.

      I have run in mine with no problems.

      I walked around and stood around at disneyland yesterday for over 8 hours in the thinnest vibrams I can find. No back pain, no foot pain, which is not possible for me in regular shoes. I'm a passholder, so I do that all the time. Before these shoes, it was misery.

      So they may not work for everybody. But they work for me. My friend with plantar facitis goes to dland more often than I do in skeletoes, basically the same thing with a little more pading. No problems. She used to be in bad pain.

      Although Rick, who has never seen me, my feet, any xrays, spoken to any doctors, chiros, podiatrists about my feet or back has decreed that barefoot shoes are bad and a waste of money. So I'm going to have a pair of personallized steel shoes forged for me, I'm sure that would be so much healthier.

      Believe it or not, your feet actually can do a lot when they're unencumbered. They grip things, balance, its easier for me to go 'barefoot' than wear a pair of shoes and orthodics. No more twisty ankles if I take a wrong step.

      Some people can't wear them or don't want to. Fine. They work for me. I am pain free with those in a way that no orthodic or regular shoe ever could.

      My horses are barefoot. I'm not anti-shoe, but mine don't need them. I don't think they would be better for my horses and the vet and farrier agree. If there was some reason to put them on, I would do it. But why mess with what's working? Sometimes nature is right.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by pal-o-mino View Post
        I walked around and stood around at disneyland yesterday for over 8 hours in the thinnest vibrams I can find. No back pain, no foot pain, which is not possible for me in regular shoes. I'm a passholder, so I do that all the time. Before these shoes, it was misery.

        So they may not work for everybody. But they work for me. My friend with plantar facitis goes to dland more often than I do in skeletoes, basically the same thing with a little more pading. No problems. She used to be in bad pain.
        Its a miracle! Praise the Lord........
        Although Rick, who has never seen me, my feet, any xrays, spoken to any doctors, chiros, podiatrists about my feet or back has decreed that barefoot shoes are bad and a waste of money.
        Unfortunately, the discussion isn't about you. Never was.
        So I'm going to have a pair of personallized steel shoes forged for me, I'm sure that would be so much healthier.
        Probably so, but you won't know 'till you try it. lol!
        Believe it or not, your feet actually can do a lot when they're unencumbered.
        I refer you to RFL.
        They grip things, balance, its easier for me to go 'barefoot' than wear a pair of shoes and orthodics. No more twisty ankles if I take a wrong step.
        If you think that going barefoot is going to keep you from twisting your ankle, then I've got some beachfront property in Florida that you might be interested in purchasing. Put another way, you appear to be one of those referred to in P.T. Barnum's observation of the human condition.
        Some people can't wear them or don't want to. Fine. They work for me. I am pain free with those in a way that no orthodic or regular shoe ever could.
        (crank up the volume!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RrdwElnTU
        Sometimes nature is right.
        What about the rest of the time? LMAO!

        Comment


        • #64
          I used something similar to this last year... MY little QH has major hoof wall speration after he went from 24/7 stall to 24/7 pasture. Something similar to white line but not quite the same. He needs shoes on all 4 and he shed so much of his hoof wall that nail on shoes were not an option. See here for pictures of his feet. I used the very fancy glue on shoes and still had issues keeping them on more than 4 weeks. Then i tried something similar to what was listed. While it worked ok it tended to keep his sole packed with sticks, dirt, and generally anything that could get in there. Between the glue on's and this option his hoof wall grew out but both messed up his angles and growth pattern so badly that it's taken me 6 months of regular shoeing to get his angles corrected.

          Oh and not to mention right after I quit using glue ons and the casting material he developed a huge sole/stone bruise. The casting material and the glue on shoes covered so much of his sole that his feet became so 'soft' that it made him prone to brusing. If he ever develops these issues again I'll just pull his shoes and let him go barefoot.

          Comment


          • #65
            Southern, have you considered giving up do it yourself horseshoeing and using a competent professional farrier?

            Comment


            • #66
              So heel first landing is bad for humans but good for horses.

              Just as long as it is barefoot it is good.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by SouthernYankee View Post
                I used something similar to this last year... MY little QH has major hoof wall speration after he went from 24/7 stall to 24/7 pasture. Something similar to white line but not quite the same. He needs shoes on all 4 and he shed so much of his hoof wall that nail on shoes were not an option. See here for pictures of his feet. I used the very fancy glue on shoes and still had issues keeping them on more than 4 weeks. Then i tried something similar to what was listed. While it worked ok it tended to keep his sole packed with sticks, dirt, and generally anything that could get in there. Between the glue on's and this option his hoof wall grew out but both messed up his angles and growth pattern so badly that it's taken me 6 months of regular shoeing to get his angles corrected.

                Oh and not to mention right after I quit using glue ons and the casting material he developed a huge sole/stone bruise. The casting material and the glue on shoes covered so much of his sole that his feet became so 'soft' that it made him prone to brusing. If he ever develops these issues again I'll just pull his shoes and let him go barefoot.
                Have you perhaps considered the 24/7 pasture is not working in your favor?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Ignoring all the off track comments, I have used several types of casting for several applications and here is what I have noted that come to mind just now. Take it FWIW.

                  A. I would not put them over diseased foot. Bad idea although there are a few creative ways you can medicate under them using wicking. I would never put them on a horse with white line issues.

                  B. I always soak the sole of the foot down with durasole or thrushbuster before applying them to help keep any hoof nastys at bay. Seems to work pretty well.


                  C. I buy my products from a medical source or outdated stuff from a hobby type supplier on the cheap if i can. All this casting is just human grade medical casting. It comes in a fiberglass (completely hard the life of the cast and less forgiving) and a fiberglass/ poly (seems to get some movement to it over time) blend. Anything marketed to horses is vastly overpriced with a fancy label applied but it IS just human grad casting with a fancy label marked WAY up. I might make certain people upset but there it is in bold truth. I never pay for a label. My area is not the kind that will pay for that.

                  note...approx 40 dollars a box for 10 rolls http://orthotape.com/2_Inch_Techform..._cast_Tape.asp

                  D. Hoof expansion IS restricted in them. They hold the foot MORE than any metal shoe ever could especially at first. I would not use them on contracted feet unless it was for some other reason and temporarily. I ALWAYS weight the foot when I cure them. I think it makes a difference. I always use a garden kneeling pad to form the bottom of them as they cure.

                  E. Speaking of temporarily, I dont use them more than two rounds at a time typically because of the restricting nature of them. I try to give the horse several days in between applications if I can to give the foot a breather and allow it to relax. I think they are a good patch but they will not hold up to the riding we do here AND they are slick as snot on concrete. Gravel eats them up.


                  All this aside, they DO have a practical use for some people and can really provide comfort in some cases. You can cast over Vettec products and ground control shoes. If you are creative, you can do alot of good with them for many horses in need. You can ride on grass and dirt easily in them. They do support the foot quite well and will conform up into a deficiant frog and get it loading better working the DC better. Its not ideal but a good steppign stone for a sore horse IMO. Horses that need support but object to nailing like them. Thin soles like them. They cost more but you work with what you have available to you.

                  I dont get the socks comment because MY socks are not completely rigid! This stuff is what you cast broken bones with. It aint no sock despite some of the names it gets! LOL

                  Anyway, JMO. I dont forge. I cant physically do it even tho I would love to be able to do it all. I do like to rehabilitate hooves however and there is a great need for educated trimmers/farriers in my area. I wish I could go find a place to learn to only use alternative shoes that dont require forging methods and shaping with heavy hammers. Anyway, I find this is a way I can help more horses who need help that the average farrier here cant provide and certainly more than any barefoot trimmer with only boots in their toolbox. When I see the feet coming out of the universitys with corrective work and the best of the best in my area completely failing the horse...I just have to keep trudging on with my piddly little trimming I do because its a damn crying SHAME these horses have to suffer with what they are being subjected to by *SOME* professionals. Im sorry but this is the truth like it or not.

                  Im not anti shoe. Im anti BAD shoes. I only WISH I was able to forge and be an example for my area because it needs it. Sadly I can only be a trimmer and use alternative materials.

                  ETA I did order the insets but havent got to try them yet. I think they look interesting and I can see using them with Equi pak for some applications rather nicely.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Trinity3205 View Post
                    . . . When I see the feet coming out of the universitys with corrective work and the best of the best in my area completely failing the horse...
                    Unfortunate demographics. Many areas simply will not support a profitable full time, full service farrier business.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I agree Tom. That is a very big part of the problem. Many people here are cheap and the bulk of horses are backyard ornaments who will often go all winter without seeing a trim. I do what I do for the love of the horse and to educate the few I can.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I am so cheap I have not trimmed some of my horses in 3 years!!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Rick Burten View Post
                          Its a miracle! Praise the Lord........
                          Tell Jebus he can buy them for 99.99 at sports chalet. maybe he needs a pair.

                          Unfortunately, the discussion isn't about you. Never was.
                          Of course its not about me. If you need help catching my drift, try a butterfly net.


                          I refer you to RFL.
                          Have no idea what this means and don't care.

                          If you think that going barefoot is going to keep you from twisting your ankle, then I've got some beachfront property in Florida that you might be interested in purchasing. Put another way, you appear to be one of those referred to in P.T. Barnum's observation of the human condition.
                          Good grief, can't you read?? I said twist-Y! Not twist-ED or twist-ING! Call back when you're smarter.

                          Bummer, not available on mobile! Here's one that is though: http://youtu.be/W9cvXlsfWa8

                          What about the rest of the time? LMAO!
                          The rest of the time, she makes mistakes! LIKE YOU!! ROFLMAO! Oh, you walked right into it. You better get a pair of Vibrams, quick!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by LMH View Post
                            I am so cheap I have not trimmed some of my horses in 3 years!!
                            Probably the smart ones that figured out if they did it themselves they wouldn't have to worry about you missing appointments and not returning their calls.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by pal-o-mino View Post
                              Tell Jebus he can buy them for 99.99 at sports chalet. maybe he needs a pair.
                              Who's Jebus(sic)? lol. If by chance you meant Jesus, I don't communicate with the dead.......
                              Of course its not about me. If you need help catching my drift, try a butterfly net.
                              IIRC, didn't they used to use butterfly nets to catch the daft(sic)? Perhaps if I had Bellevue on speed dial, I'd call and ask them to send someone out, with a butterfly net, for you. Fortunately for you, I don't have Bellevue on speed dial or otherwise.......
                              Have no idea what this means and don't care.
                              That's because demonstrably, you're an indifferent student who evidently has failed to read for content in context or whose attention span is mediocre at best. For your elucidation, RFL refers to Rick's First Law aka: [the law of] It Depends.
                              Good grief, can't you read??
                              Good grief, do you not think?
                              I said twist-Y!
                              Perhaps you'd care to expound on what you actually meant and how that differs from the form of the verb/noun/adjective "twist' I used.
                              Not twist-ED or twist-ING!
                              See above.
                              Call back when you're smarter.
                              Will do/have done. Problem is, since I function at a higher pay grade than do you, dumbing down my end of the conversation to a level that is adequate for you, is a mildly difficult task for me. However, I endeavor to persevere......
                              Bummer, not available on mobile! [/quote]
                              Your loss, not mine.
                              The rest of the time, she makes mistakes! LIKE YOU!! ROFLMAO! Oh, you walked right into it.
                              Hardly. Fortunately for me, a simple foot bath removes that sort of crap and puts it where it belongs-- in the toilet, to be flushed into the sewer system where it belongs.
                              You better get a pair of Vibrams, quick!
                              Believe it or not, I actually had a couple pair of Vibrams. They were hoof pads and appropriately enough, ended up where they belonged--on the bottom side of hooves that were routinely standing in solid and liquid horse excrement. And, for the record, I didn't purchase those pads, they were freebies from a vendor at the IHCS(International Hoof Care Summit) a few years ago. And they have not been nor will they be replaced either on the horses or amongst my supplies.
                              Last edited by Rick Burten; Mar. 7, 2013, 05:59 AM.

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