• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Softening his feet?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Originally posted by CrowneDragon View Post
    A recent study (IIRC) indicated that external moisture (mud, dressings, etc) does very little to soften horn, just the sole (and frog, I'd imagine). I can't recall the exact study and can't get my thehorse.com account to open, but here is a link for you to read it:
    http://www.thehorse.com/articles/297...ration-studied

    My farrier uses a small blow torch on the feet for a few seconds if they are super hard.
    The moisture enters the foot through the sole, and probably just takes time to affect the walls, but moisture does affect the walls too. Otherwise how could you explain why my horses' feet are rock hard in dry weather and softer in wet weather?

    If the farrier is breaking hoof knives he's working on the bottom of the foot anyway.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by 2BayPonies View Post
      Can you link me to article(s) regarding this?

      What would constitute regular use? 2x week year round, or less?

      I generally use Rainmaker in the summer months, and once a week generally unless my farrier mentions their feet are extremely dry. I then "try" to use more often, but its a messy business.

      Just looking for clarification so I can discuss with my guy next visit.
      The Horse article linked above is a very good one

      "The study also showed that hoof dressings containing solvents and tar-based components damaged poor-quality horn. In some cases, the intercellular lipids or fats were damaged, allowing water contained within the horn to evaporate, thus causing the horn to become dry and brittle."

      "
      In very wet conditions, using these hoof dressings allows water into the horn, and the feet become very soft and weak."


      ______________________________
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by BEARCAT View Post
        Why don't you ask your vet and other "well reputed professionals " what they recommend? They are the ones that know your horse and his living conditions.
        You beat me to it. ^2

        Comment


        • #44
          My apoplogy JB, I meant to say Ole' Horsewoman, as in all knowing, experienced, omnicient, etc. there is that better? wink.

          I have a young WB w/ rock hard feet and I don't even attempt to trim her until I've moisturized her feet w/ plain water. Sometimes I use soaking boots but mostly I keep a puddle around the water trough or puddle water around her feet while she eats. So yes, I stand corrected on that comment about breaking hoof knives.

          My point I was trying to make was this.... Plain ole water is the cheapest, best, healthiest hoof softener IMO. The OP did say she couldn't wait til summer, perhaps meaning when there's lots of rain to soften the hooves. ???
          "There is no fundamental difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." - Charles Darwin

          Comment


          • #45
            Much better

            I think the comment about Summer was sarcastic, as in, if they're this hard now ,just wait til Summer.

            I'm curious how feet can be so hard as to break knives in Winter in CT, unless that's not the OP's correct location.

            Summers here can be weeks and weeks of no rain, so rock-hard red clay soil sucking moisture out of feet. I *hate* trimming mine during times like that. I get excited when it does rain, not just for the gardens, but for softer feet LOL
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

            Comment


            • #46
              Best way to get moisture to you horses hooves is through his mouth.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #47
                From my last post on, for the most part *that* was the types of discussion I was hoping to embark upon. Thank you!

                Yes, I absolutely woke up on the wrong side of the bed but nobody can negate the 'new' demographic of the "Natural Barefoot Trim" school who think doing nothing is the best and all issues can be solved through a majikal trim alone. Oh, and a speshul feed.

                Don't get me started on bitless bridles.

                FWIW, it's not just one, sole farrier who's breaking knives and it's not just this winter -- yes in CT -- and it's not just this one season.

                I've often wondered about the hoof packing/s vs. topicals. I've always been a fan of Hoofmaker but was cautioned against using such b/c 'it doesnt' soak in enough'. Well, if I"m sitting there for 15 minutes massaging in with my fingers a few times a week, then yes, I'm pretty sure there's a bit of absorption going on. My crappy fingernails testify to it.

                Meanwhile, I've also been cautioned *against* Feibing's hoof oil. Which has been on the market for about a hundred years, but IME only used to make feet pretty before entering the ring.

                Still want to avoid discussing the issue that's being exacerbated by the hardness of the sole/ foot and the inability to pare down bars/ sole, etc. Suffice to say the pressure created by it ain't good. And no, I"m not going to name drop the pros I'm dealing with to appease y'all. Sorry. But I believe in this crew, and it's been a decade of trust being built, and more.

                TOTALLY cockamaime thought process here: Have you ever heard of using Murphy's oil soap in warm water to help soften/ moisturize?

                My other old stand by had been Hoof Heal but it does contain venice turpentine or the like. I don't have an ingredient listing in front of me and my memory is fakakked. So, sidebar question: How can these 'emollient' type conditioners who seem to promote themselves as products to create pliability throw that in the ingredient listing and still come up with 'soft'? I'd love to see ratios of how these things are formulated.

                Back to hoof packing: Any Cornucrescene (sp?) vs. Forschner's users out there? Admittedly I've never used either on my personal animals, but have worked for several who swear by them interchangeably to *harden* feet.

                Then again.. good old ichthalmol. Please share your experiences.

                Lastly, What was the purpose of Oakum when using pads? In recent years I'm seeing it less and less and more of silicone, equithane pours, and another newfangled product who's name escapes me..

                Thank you again.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #48
                  ..and please understand I have my own notions on many of the questions I ask here. I'm asking because I'm curious what other's impressions are.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Thanks, I see that link now, but can't get into my account. I'll try on another computer later

                    I think I found the article you referenced above, before I headed out. If I recall it was as study by Wagner & Kempson? Perhaps its the same one on horse.com

                    I do appreciate your input :-)






                    Originally posted by JB View Post
                    The Horse article linked above is a very good one

                    "The study also showed that hoof dressings containing solvents and tar-based components damaged poor-quality horn. In some cases, the intercellular lipids or fats were damaged, allowing water contained within the horn to evaporate, thus causing the horn to become dry and brittle."

                    "
                    In very wet conditions, using these hoof dressings allows water into the horn, and the feet become very soft and weak."


                    Comment


                    • #50
                      If the horse's soles are too hard to cut, then how is the farrier breaking a hoof knife unless s/he is able to perhaps get the knife started a bit into the sole or bar and is then trying to pry with it. If that's the case, then they are misusing the tool and are endangering themselves, the horse and anyone else who happens to be in the area when that blade breaks. And, they may be using a knife that has been sharpened numerous times and as a result is thinner and narrower and more prone to breaking, especially when used incorrectly. Some skilled farriers will use half round nippers to remove excess sole but if you don't know what you are doing when using them, you can cause a lot of damage in a really short period of time. I've used a small propane torch in the past but here again, if the farrier doesn't know what s/he is doing, the outcome can be rather disappointing and dangerous.
                      Sometimes a client will stand their horse in damp sand to get moisture to 'wick' up into the sole a bit. They'll do this the night before an appointment. You might be able to, the night before, bandage a hoof packing product such as Hawthorn's into the feet using a diaper and some duct tape. Standing the horse in some mud may work but has some drawbacks including mess and the fact that as the mud dries it will draw moisture out of the hoof. Standing the horse in water may also help but it usually takes more time than most folks are willing to provide. I'm not much on using power tools such as a grinder unless I know that the horse has already been conditioned to accept the noise and feel of the grinder on its hooves. Nothing like having one jerk a hoof away while that grinder , with an abrasive disc in place, is spinning at 10,000rpm.......

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Sansena View Post
                        Still want to avoid discussing the issue that's being exacerbated by the hardness of the sole/ foot and the inability to pare down bars/ sole, etc. Suffice to say the pressure created by it ain't good.
                        Why not provide more information? that is usually a good thing, rather than a negative ...

                        And no, I"m not going to name drop the pros I'm dealing with to appease y'all. Sorry. But I believe in this crew, and it's been a decade of trust being built, and more.
                        Arrogant much???
                        if you believe in this speshul crew, then why post on the internet inviting the opinions of assorted madcap individuals


                        TOTALLY cockamaime thought process here: Have you ever heard of using Murphy's oil soap in warm water to help soften/ moisturize?
                        You're worried about the negative effects of water BUT you'd use Murphy's oil soap!!!
                        Among other components, it contains 1-5% NaOH which is ... yup, you guessed, it ... drying ... pH ~ 11

                        Also contains EtOH - yup, another one of those little drying irritants

                        and hydrogen peroxide (sorry my subscripts are on vacation) - you'll never guess what this stuff does
                        (yeah, drying again - I think by now you're beginning to realize why people who love their hardwood floors, won't let the stuff in the same room)

                        I could go on sleuthing the ingredients but getting bored now ...

                        Back to hoof packing: Any Cornucrescene (sp?) vs. Forschner's users out there? Admittedly I've never used either on my personal animals, but have worked for several who swear by them interchangeably to *harden* feet.
                        That'd be Cornucrescine - ask any ole C,D & M aficionado - & obviously my opinion wouldn't even begin to hold against those professionals ...

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          The only time I've ever encountered soles too hard with unsoundness here in New England it's gone hand and hand with metabolic issues/laminitis. The sole produced is plastic-like, hard, and does not exfoliate properly.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Kolsch View Post
                            The only time I've ever encountered soles too hard with unsoundness here in New England it's gone hand and hand with metabolic issues/laminitis. The sole produced is plastic-like, hard, and does not exfoliate properly.
                            ^this^

                            I can't believe it took 52 responses for someone to mention it

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Maybe I need coffee, but I'm not really understanding the OP's posts...

                              Even though the hoof is designed to be hard, it can cause a horse to be unsound if hard...

                              Putting the horse on a good diet, and trimming the hoof properly, so it can function the way it was made to is just a bunch of hoopla, but smearing goop on it has to work, since it helps fingernails...

                              The OP would like advice, but only if it lines up with what she believes in...like using Murphy's Oil....

                              Oh, and because most have learned with the times, trials studies etc......horsemanship is dead.

                              Did I get the gist of it?
                              The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                              https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by LMH View Post
                                ^this^

                                I can't believe it took 52 responses for someone to mention it
                                Perhaps everyone was waiting for you to chime in..... and at last, someone wearied of waiting.......

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #56
                                  Some of you are acting like a bunch of harpies and jackals.

                                  I never said I used Murphys. I asked if anyone had heard of using Murphys.

                                  I dont' disparage proper trims, proper diet and good exercise & living conditions. Any 'natural barefoot trimmer' I've seen speak in absolutes.. stating all shod horses are tortured and unsound. I never said 'goop' was the majikal bullet, but I wondered out loud the benefits of soaking in water (which further dries with evaporation), vs topical application of various and sundry.

                                  Lastly, because I choose to keep certain horse's medical conditions confidential, I'm being chastised. Right. So if you have a horse with a treatable medical condition and offer him for sale some 5 years later, the anonymous half-informed harpies will come out of the woodwork and spread rumors about what they THINK they read on some BB and put off any prospective buyers.

                                  Because reading for comprehension is such a prevalent talent here.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Rick Burten View Post
                                    Perhaps everyone was waiting for you to chime in..... and at last, someone wearied of waiting.......
                                    I am quite certain most were praising the days and posts that went by without my response.

                                    It was just becoming incredibly irresponsible reading all of the advice softening the feet and resorting to power tools when no one even asked a question about the metabolic condition of the horse.

                                    But then again, what could an attorney possibly know about hoof care.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Kwalker024 View Post
                                      Suggestions seem reasonable as well as the questions being asked to try and understand the situation as best as possible. OP not sure why you are so snarky and rude if you didn't want questions or suggestions probably shouldn't ask the question and just stick with your reputable professionals who know your horse.
                                      Yes, that was my thought too.

                                      I would imagine while knife breaking "well reputed professional" farrier is under said horse with rock hard lameness causing feet they might say, "Hey Sansena, I think you should try product XYZ on Dobbin's feet. It will really help with this hardness and that will help not only the lameness issue it is causing but make my job a ton easier".

                                      I know my farrier would do something like that if my horse was having an issue he thought there was something I could be doing to help remedy.



                                      Originally posted by Sansena View Post
                                      TOTALLY cockamaime thought process here: Have you ever heard of using Murphy's oil soap in warm water to help soften/ moisturize?
                                      Yes.
                                      Not so sure about using it to moisturize but it was suggested to me to try it when soaking out an abscess.
                                      No idea if it worked better or worse than anything else but it sure smelled good while I sat there soaking.


                                      Originally posted by LMH View Post
                                      It was just becoming incredibly irresponsible reading all of the advice softening the feet and resorting to power tools when no one even asked a question about the metabolic condition of the horse.
                                      People asked about the horse, they were told it was none of their business. Maybe not that question directly, but general questions were asked.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        What the fruitbat is going on here guess I need more coffee too.

                                        OP, if you are seeking moisturization - as opposed to hydration - then why not explore the use of an actual moisturizer? If I were in your shoes, I would likely go to CVS and get the big tub of the house-brand Eucerin, perhaps a bottle of Vit E oil, or even some of that placenta hair care emollient and try one at a time to see if any results can be had. Hoof wall is basically keratin right? Essentially, *I* would be looking at human moisturizing products (and PLEASE realize that *I* am nobody so take my advice with an enormous grain of salt. Also please realize that I've never needed to moisturize my horses' hooves so I'm just casting ideas into the wind here). I would be staying far away from hoof products (often petroleum based items slip in there which IS drying), and certainly far far away from household cleaning products. My personal favorite moisturizer for my hands and nails is actually straight up olive oil, so I'd probably be trying that too.

                                        Oakum to my knowledge is a plant based fiber soaked in pine tar or a blend of the like. The purpose was for packing in tight spaces to fill voids and prevent leakage and at the same time, not rot... think shipwrighting. My SO is a plumber who still packs and pours lead and he uses oakum in the fittings to make a watertight seal that will last beyond the apocalypse. The first farrier I ever used packed oakum under my horse's pads. I assume because it was a good packing material that was cheap and wouldn't rot. I impressed my SO early on when we went for a date and I smelled the oakum on him and knew immediately what it was. I loff the smell of oakum. I digress.

                                        OP - at the risk of getting body slammed for this, oy I need more coffee - I get where you are coming from. There are days I idly consider asking a healthcare question here and then think to myself "do I really feel like baring my horse-keeping soul today to a bunch of strangers suffering from cabin fever, who will revel and delight in examining me under a microscope? ...nah " so I understand bracing for the attack, but you came in on the defense and I think your preemptive strike was a tickle more than required.

                                        And you would be wise to un-block JB, even if you choose not to converse with her, as she has the deepest well of knowledge and least amount of snark of just about anyone here.

                                        Good luck with your horse, you are obviously dealing with something quite distressing and it seems to have you on your last nerves. We've all been there. Kudos for you for doing your best for your horse to think outside the box.
                                        Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Oh and I came across this, I really do need more coffee as my Spidey senses tell me its pertinent to your needs, but the brain cells aren't warmed up enough yet to fully process it. good luck.
                                          Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X