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Going soy free?

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  • Original Poster

    copra is essentially dried coconut meat with most (but not all) of the oil extracted. its whats left after squeezing out the coco oil. Supposedly (per the marketing machine trying to make money off this stuff) whats left has good stuff in it that is soothing to the hindgut. And supplies cool energy cause it still has about 10% fat left, and is high fiber. Its basically another industry waste material trying to find a good use (rather like beet pulp). If it still tastes like coconut I could see my horses going gaga for it!


    • #22
      With the Equipride - I've never had a horse turn it down, as long as they were introduced slowly. It is salty so it takes some getting used to. Start with 1/8 of that blue cup that comes with it per feeding. A splash of canola oil helps it stick to dry feed stuffs; or it will stick nicely to any feed with molasses in it. Mix very thoroughly. After a week or so, increase to a 1/4 cup per feeding and so on.

      Incidentally, if you can get the feed store to carry the large 50# bags, you'll save about 25% of the overall price.

      Oh and thanks for the review of M10. I'm going to look into it.


      • #23
        I took my three (1 TWH, 2 miniatures) soy free about a year ago when one of the miniatures was having health problems. They were getting Triple Crown Lite, a rashion balancer for easy keepers in the correct amount for their weights. The one mini had wet stools and was gassy, so his tail was always soaked. He also had runny eyes, swollen glands, cresty neck, swollen sheath and a big pot belly. I could not get him to loose a single pound even with hard work. Put him on alfalfa pellets and top dressed them with California Trace and within couple days his eyes and gas cleared up. Within a couple months he was way better all around, as well as much more energetic and happy to work.

        As someone who has suffered with health issues for 10 years, dr thought I was crazy, was finally diagnosed as gluten intolerant and now GF for only 6 weeks and feeling 10 years younger.....OH HECK YEAH DIET CAN MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE!


        • #24
          PNW AMTS Dealer...yes I totally get the food intolerance bit also. I have Celiac that went undiagnosed and untreated for years. Finally figured out what was triggering my miserable IBS symptoms and have been gluten free for 6 years and Paleo Diet for 2 and it's like having my life back also.

          I was probably the first person a few years ago who finally figured out that soy could be an issue for horses...at least on this forum. I have a herd of rare breed horses and most of those somewhat related. I switched from plain oats/normal horses to a RB and all hell broke loose it seemed. I had a number of horses get grossly obese in a few weeks despite feeding them nearly nothing...no pasture, next to no hay, but they got their 1 lbs of RB...just kept getting bigger. Vet and I are so baffled at this point as I'd called in for help. They looked like they had cellulite and were bloated. Some mares developed udders as well.

          Overall hooves went to crap that summer also with more WL separation I've ever seen in my mostly tough hooved horses...and surely some of that was the obesity but I saw this in all my horses across the board...but considering I'd changed NOTHING but the concentrate feed, it sure was suspicious.

          I also had a suckling filly turn "crazy" about 2 months old...about when she started to really chow down with her dam at dinner time. Her behavior turned around quickly when I pulled her off that feed. She's now a normal young horse in work and training.

          One of my broodmares inexplicably got laminitic. She was not IR..was actually lactating and a bit thin. At that point I took all the horses off the RB that day cold turkey. The mare was immediately better and suffered very minor rotation and the other horses started to loose the bloated look. Nearly all lost the extra weight in a month or so or normal dieting and went back out on pasture.

          The mare who got laminitic has been out on pasture the 4 years since then with no more trouble...and no more hoof problems, no crazy horses, nor unexplainable obesity and related issues.

          I feed alfalfa pellets...about 1-2 lbs a day per horse and use oats if needed as well as beet pulp and rice bran. No flax...just to expensive for as many horses as I'm feeding and I have dapples without it. Good quality grass hay and pasture and no more problems...no more soy either. Learned my lesson.

          I honestly don't know what the trigger is but some possibilities that have come up in discussion are: phytoestrogens which are potent and bioactive in soy..more so than any other legume, antinutrients/toxins which are things like phytates which block mineral absorption...phytates are also found in grains....soy has a lot of anti nutrients compared to other feeds though. Also suggested was that hexane, a rather nasty toxic chemical, is used in processing soy might be leaving behind some residues. Soy is toxic right off the plant in the field and requires processing to make it edible..or whatever your definition of edible is.


          • #25
            Originally posted by arabiansrock View Post
            copra is essentially dried coconut meat with most (but not all) of the oil extracted. its whats left after squeezing out the coco oil. Supposedly (per the marketing machine trying to make money off this stuff) whats left has good stuff in it that is soothing to the hindgut. And supplies cool energy cause it still has about 10% fat left, and is high fiber. Its basically another industry waste material trying to find a good use (rather like beet pulp). If it still tastes like coconut I could see my horses going gaga for it!
            Thanks for the explanation! You learn something new every day!
            Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO


            • #26
              I have heard of oat flour for hind gut health too, but no idea if it makes them nuts like normal oats. I will be experimenting with it this year on my sassy thoroughbred.

              And good to know about flax everyone! I've never been on that bandwagon, we started on the chia one right away. But still good to know!


              • #27
                Originally posted by TBRedHead View Post
                I have heard of oat flour for hind gut health too, but no idea if it makes them nuts like normal oats. I will be experimenting with it this year on my sassy thoroughbred.
                Oat fiber is the main ingredient in Succeed... add some yeast and you've saved yourself $100 a month.
                Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO


                • #28
                  My mare gets super gooey eyes when on soy. I will keep all my horses on alfalfa pellets, and whatever added fats are needed. Unless they are doing strenuous work I don't think they need anything else. Good luck


                  • #29
                    Daydream Believer, just curious......which RB were you feeding?


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by autumn50 View Post
                      Daydream Believer, just curious......which RB were you feeding?
                      Progressive Grass Balancer. I think soy is the first and third ingredient.


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                        Oat fiber is the main ingredient in Succeed... add some yeast and you've saved yourself $100 a month.
                        Oh wow! I just get 50# bags of oat flour for cheap! He's on Kombat Boots, so I'm totally doing it right


                        • Original Poster

                          short update

                          Well my three horses have been soy free for a week. They now get equipride, flax seed, rice bran, timothy pellets, alfalfa pellets, and their supplements. Mind you the pellets is only what will fit in a one gal ziplock bag no more, so about 4-6 cups total pellets depending on which horse.

                          So as of Sunday what I have seen is:

                          24 year old arab mare with severe arthritis in one knee - cantered under saddle for first time in almost two years, and DID NOT want to stop. Daughter had to tell her three laps (small indoor, not large outdoor) was enough.

                          11 year old arab mare is even hotter and more hyper than before. I lunged her to try and get her brain back yesterday before DD rode her. didn't work. She wouldn't even trot for DD, just wanted to canter, so I told DD go ahead and canter until she is willing to trot. She was finally calm when done.

                          8 yr old TB gelding - Kind of bouncy leading him up from pasture so I decided to lunge him before getting on. GOOD idea! He ran and ran and ran (this is a horse that does not like to canter he has canter issues). Turned around and he ran some more. I finally got on and boy was he spicy still. YOu could just feel him looking for an excuse to let a buck out. DD ended up getting on and pushing him really forward in trot for me until he got his brain back.

                          So take away soy, have a lower sugar diet, and all three get hot?
                          i suppose it could be weather changes but this is norcal it is pretty warm here, and has been fairly consistent warm weather for a few weeks. Not quite sure what to make of it, will see how week two goes.


                          • #33
                            I would think it would take more time than that to see that much of a difference from a feed change and it is probably just the fact that winter is ( hopefully) coming to an end! Can I ask why you feed tim/alf pellets when they eat plenty of hay already? I see that as a common thing here, just wondering what the thinking is behind it? Just a filler, of sorts ?


                            • #34
                              Don't jump to conclusions. It's a time of year when lots of horses begin to get happy feet. Being enthusiastic and wanting to play on any given day is not how I would define a "hot" horse.
                              Click here before you buy.


                              • Original Poster

                                here in CA barns don't free feed hay. they get hay am and pm. (7 and 4 in my case). So if I want them to have something midday I have to provide lunch. I was feeded a fortified feed (at a low rate) but got on a kick of getting off soy and seeing if there are any changes. And since horses are meant to eat forage and all the place back east seem to extoll the virtues of hay 24/7, I figured get rid of the processed feed and add...Hay.

                                Deltawave, I agree way to early for conclusions, it was just funny that all three felt REALLY good yesterday. Our winter has already been over for a month and a half. We really only had about 3-4 weeks of truly winter weather. Maybe March and april will have something but so far.... dry and warm. Not a good outlook for the water supply.


                                • Original Poster

                                  Well just another short update on my soy free experiment. Its been 4 weeks now, and I can't really say I see any real difference other than all three of my horses feel "good" eg a little spunky, spooky, running like idiots on the lunge line. Most likely its the weather, cold nights but warm days, and some wind thrown in.

                                  Good news is my tb is finally eating the equipride, he is up to 1 cup now. I think I am actually spending MORE money feeding them this way than using bagged feed. Someone tell me I am doing better for my horses feeding them this way than using bagged processed feed????? At least my mares who only eat grass hay are getting a little alfalfa this way.


                                  • #37
                                    Personally with any feed change I wouldn't really judge the results until 90 days. It takes that long for their bodies/coats/hooves to show any significant change. The one thing I think you might notice sooner is a behavior change (assuming soy was responsible for bad behavior in the first place).

                                    I think it's a personal decision. I've started the M10 (soy free balancer from McCauley) and so far so good! But it's only been a week. Cheaper option then Equipride and more palatable. You may want to look into it if you can get McCauley's.

                                    I mix it with Ultra Bloom (pelleted rice bran) for my TB mare who's tough to keep weight on. She also gets a 1/3 cup of canola oil. At night she also gets a beet pulp mash mixed with chopped carrots, I call it her 'dessert'. The other two easy kids just get the M10.


                                    • #38
                                      Someone tell me I am doing better for my horses feeding them this way than using bagged processed feed?????
                                      Define "better". Have a look at your horses in another month and then again at 6 months and if they look better, feel better, you're saving money and all's well, then you'll have your answer.
                                      Click here before you buy.


                                      • #39
                                        I noticed a change in my guy with the soy allergy real quick. Within two weeks his eyes quit running and his swollen glands went down, his diarrhea was gone, and within a month his hard crest and swollen sheath was back to normal. In about two months he also got more energy, endurance, and was happier to work. I didn't see any changes in my other two horses, but they didn't really exhibit signs of allergy/intolerance to begin with.


                                        • #40
                                          Is the flax new? My gelding, Koko, has had issues with too much flax in the past. It makes him EXTRA spooky and even my vet could see the difference. I have to really limit how much he gets, and recently switched joint supplements (went to straight MSM) and dropped another supplement to make sure he's only getting a minimal amount in his SmartHoof.

                                          ETA: Both of my horses are actually getting soy for the first time now. After my gelding's laminitis, I switched them to a "low-carb" feed for their snack, and it contains soy. I haven't had any issues, but they are only getting a quart a day each.