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Any research on what fades a horses coat?

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  • Any research on what fades a horses coat?

    I was talking about this today and I am wondering if there is a fading gene in some horse colors.

    My dark bay gelding fades like no horse I have ever seen!

    He gets a beautiful dark coat when winter begins and weeks later it is bleached.

    Keeping him in doesn't work, paprika doesn't work, nothing works!

    He is on a balanced diet and has a shiny healthy coat, so I just wonder if it is just the way his coat will be.

    I have seen a few vitamin supplements that say the coat will not fade with the supplement, but just feel that that is due more to a deficiency then actually changing the way the coat reacts to the sun.

    I am just looking for some answers! I would love for my horse to keep his dark coat, but it seems I have tried everything!

  • #2
    That's a good question...I know they will fade if there is a Copper deficiency, I experienced it myself with my pony. Are you sure your horse is dark bay, and not brown/brown based? I want to say brown horses will fade, and true black based bay will not. But, I am not sure.
    "On the back of a horse I felt whole, complete, connected to that vital place in the center of me...and the chaos within me found balance."

    Comment


    • #3
      Are you keeping an eye on zinc, copper, the zinc to copper ratio, VitA, methonine, and omega's in your horses balanced ration?

      Suggest you google these terms and also "chelated minerals" and "mineral interaction". That should give you enough reading for a few days.

      Then google "color genetics" and "fading black"...cuz your dark bay in really just a black horse with the agouti gene. Unless he is a brown that phenotyically (looks) expresses as a dark bay. That should give you another 1-2 hrs of reading.

      Now that days are getting longer and horses will start shedding soon....well yes the winter coat gets a duller looks and begins to fade.

      As an old stand by when I am having issues finding quailty oil grains I love Farman Super 14 to keep the hair coat shiny and dark.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        He gets Triple crown growth, rice bran pellets and free choice Bermuda hay.

        The amino acids and copper in the triple crown seems balanced to me.

        I had him on paprika for a while and saw no change.

        He looks like a dark bay, not sure what his "scientific" color is though.

        Comment


        • #5
          What about your hay? Do you have test info on it that you can stick into Excel and look at the bottom line?

          Likely he is a dark bay unless he has 2 brown parents.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Samotis View Post
            He gets Triple crown growth, rice bran pellets and free choice Bermuda hay.

            The amino acids and copper in the triple crown seems balanced to me.

            I had him on paprika for a while and saw no change.

            He looks like a dark bay, not sure what his "scientific" color is though.


            You can't start paprika in March for that Summer's coat. You're too late.

            If I'm worried about a Summer coat being pretty, I start in December or January at the latest. 2 TBS a day, every day.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Both the triple crown and the alfalfa pellets he gets have plenty of copper, balanced zinc and amino acids, so I can't imagine he needs the paprika.

              I had him on paprika for 6 months with no improvement.

              Here are some pictures...

              http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater

              That's him sun bleached.

              http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater

              And in the summer at a show sun bleached ;(

              Then here is a show in November where he just started to get his winter coat before he got bleached again!

              http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                His mom is a lighter Bay and his dad is dark bay. ( his mother was chestnut)

                Comment


                • #9
                  ^^Says "content is currently unavailable" when you click on the links.
                  http://www.youtube.com/user/NBChoice http://nbchoice.blogspot.com/
                  The New Banner's Choice- 1994 ASB Mare
                  Dennis The Menace Too- 1999 ASB Gelding
                  Dreamacres Sublime- 2008 ASB Gelding

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Weird, it works when I look at them. I don't have them on private.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Samotis View Post
                      Weird, it works when I look at them. I don't have them on private.
                      The correct way to link to facebook photos is to click on them, refresh the page so that they're no longer in the black box, right click, and select "copy photo URL." (Exact wording will vary by browser.)

                      It will be long and weird but you will be able to post it and it will open up in a browser window, not within Facebook. That way everyone can see them.

                      Also, depending on when you started the paprika, even if he was on it for six months, it still could not have been long enough/the right timing. Horses only grow coats twice a year, basically. So if you want that spring coat to look gorgeous you need to start now, as mentioned above. If you start in March, and go for six months, it's going to do nothing for the summer coat (which has already basically grown in) but maybe make the winter coat a little darker.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Not sure whether or not it will be of help, but apparently (according to an article I read years ago in Equus Magazine), there is a "bleaching gene" that exists in dark coated horses--blacks, dark bays, and browns. Horses either have this gene or they don't (not sure of the percentage in the survey/test they did), but it affects the tendency for their coats to bleach out, pretty much like clockwork. Most blacks and dark bays (even red bays) can develop reddish manes and tails due to sun bleaching--but the overall bleaching of the coat seems to be linked to a gene.

                        (Other coat colors probably do bleach out in the summer as a result of being out in the sun, but it's less noticeable.)

                        I had a dark bay gelding who bleached HORRIBLY in the summer, despite nutritional supplements, being kept in during the day, even sunscreen I religiously applied to his coat (at great expense ), by August he always looked like a buckskin OP, you have my sympathies! There are those "few good months", though...

                        I now have a black filly (true black, as is her sire) out of my chestnut mare, and so far (she's only 7 months old) she has stayed dark; she was almost blue-black when she was born. There are now some reddish hairs in her tail, surely this is from sunbleaching. I can only HOPE she doesn't have that coat bleaching gene, but I guess I'll find out this spring/summer!

                        Has anyone found that the Black as Knight actually WORKS, or is one just SOL if you have a horse who is prone to bleaching?
                        "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                        "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
                          Has anyone found that the Black as Knight actually WORKS, or is one just SOL if you have a horse who is prone to bleaching?
                          Paprika actually works, which is all that Black As Knight is, just 100000000% cheaper 'cause there's not a horse on the label.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GoForAGallop View Post
                            Paprika actually works, which is all that Black As Knight is, just 100000000% cheaper 'cause there's not a horse on the label.
                            I suspected as much
                            "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                            "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Paprika did absolutely nothing for my black horse. Not a thing.

                              What DOES work for my horse is adding copper and zinc (Poly Copper and Poly Zinc from Uckele).

                              Just because a given feed is balanced - which only means things are in the right ratios - doesn't mean it's providing enough for that horse in that environment. My soil here is high in iron, which means forage - grass and hay - is low in Cu and Zn.

                              Now, he still fades, don't get me wrong, but he fades dramatically less than if I don't have him on cu/zn.
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JB View Post
                                Paprika did absolutely nothing for my black horse. Not a thing.

                                What DOES work for my horse is adding copper and zinc (Poly Copper and Poly Zinc from Uckele).

                                Just because a given feed is balanced - which only means things are in the right ratios - doesn't mean it's providing enough for that horse in that environment. My soil here is high in iron, which means forage - grass and hay - is low in Cu and Zn.

                                Now, he still fades, don't get me wrong, but he fades dramatically less than if I don't have him on cu/zn.
                                I think I should make a note of this for future reference...
                                "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                                "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  My boy is black (and I had him tested because I was tired of wondering if he was bay, brown or black) and I feel like I've tried EVERYTHING to keep him from fading, short of keeping him in at night. I've pretty much given up and now just let him look terrible during most of the summer (he's slick and shiny, just... orange).

                                  (Hope I did this right....
                                  First born:
                                  https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...902_4735_n.jpg

                                  Another baby photo:
                                  https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...902_3389_n.jpg

                                  As a yearling, mid-August:
                                  https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...902_1639_n.jpg

                                  I don't know how he gets this horizontal line on his barrel, but it happens every year:
                                  https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot..._8240378_n.jpg

                                  Freshly body-clipped, Nov. 2011, and how he's "supposed" to look (he even has dapples):
                                  https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...50659754_n.jpg

                                  https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...18376038_n.jpg

                                  https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...57498120_n.jpg
                                  It's not about the color of the ribbon but the quality of the ride. Having said that, I'd like the blue one please!

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Yep, his bleaching looks like my guy!

                                    I have bought gallons of sunscreen.
                                    I have made my own spray sunscreen out of 80 SPF kids stuff.
                                    I have fed him paprika.
                                    I have kept him in during the day and out at night
                                    I have used dark shampoos
                                    I buy the best possible feed to supplement the Bermuda hay I feed
                                    I have rinsed him every day in summer so the sweat doesn't bleach his coat.

                                    He still gets bleached! Arrggghhh!!!!!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ghlight=copper

                                      reply #21- by an equine nutrition PhD. Usually copper. "Best" is a relative term. Find a supplement with the most copper. Sure worked for my fading black mare.

                                      Copper deficiency shows up more in fast growing young horses, as they have more need than mature horses.
                                      Last edited by Katy Watts; Jan. 25, 2013, 09:13 AM. Reason: more
                                      Are you feeding your horse like a cow? www.safergrass.org

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by drawstraws View Post
                                        My boy is black (and I had him tested because I was tired of wondering if he was bay, brown or black) and I feel like I've tried EVERYTHING to keep him from fading, short of keeping him in at night. I've pretty much given up and now just let him look terrible during most of the summer (he's slick and shiny, just... orange).

                                        (Hope I did this right....
                                        First born:
                                        https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...902_4735_n.jpg

                                        Another baby photo:
                                        https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...902_3389_n.jpg

                                        As a yearling, mid-August:
                                        https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...902_1639_n.jpg

                                        I don't know how he gets this horizontal line on his barrel, but it happens every year:
                                        https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot..._8240378_n.jpg

                                        Freshly body-clipped, Nov. 2011, and how he's "supposed" to look (he even has dapples):
                                        https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...50659754_n.jpg

                                        https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...18376038_n.jpg

                                        https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...57498120_n.jpg
                                        I like him!!!
                                        "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                                        Comment

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