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Any research on what fades a horses coat?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by D Taylor View Post

    Then google "color genetics" and "fading black"...cuz your dark bay in really just a black horse with the agouti gene. Unless he is a brown that phenotyically (looks) expresses as a dark bay. That should give you another 1-2 hrs of reading.
    Brown is still black with a modifying allele at the agouti locus.

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    • #42
      Wet it. Start small. Be patient.
      "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
      ---
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

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      • #43
        Not to hijack, but what about a palomino?? He's shedding and his new coat is this fabulous golden color. But he never stays that color, it fades!

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        • #44
          It's all related. But, cream adds another dimension that you can't control, and that's another genetic amount of fading.

          But yes, it's still related to melanin production, so if you want to start asap on the copper zinc, you might see a difference. It's allllmost too late though.
          ______________________________
          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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          • Original Poster

            #45
            If I can figure out how to get him to eat the dang stuff maybe I will see results!!

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            • #46
              Try keeping a lightweight sheet with a neck cover on him any time he is out in the sun. Most show horses in Australia are continually covered to stop them bleaching.

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              • Original Poster

                #47
                He is out with other horses who will eat the sheet and in the summer it is over 105 degrees here, so sheets are a no no.

                Even in the winter he sweats in his sheet! I did think about getting a neck cover for it. (it's a rhino turnout)

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                • #48
                  I was intrigued by this thread, as my bay 24-7 pasture-kept TB always ends up bleached-blonde buckskin by July. I looked into some coat and hoof supplements after reading this thread. I decided to try the Focus Hoof, as it contained zinc and copper, and fit more comfortably in my budget than some other options (would have liked to try Grand Hoof but couldn't cough up the $$$).

                  I will try to remember to come back in six months with an update! Hopefully his feet will stand the summer fly-stomping better too.
                  Leap, and the net will appear

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                  • #49
                    Hmmm not sure we are talking about the same type of sheet. Horses here wear their sheets all year round even in our summer.
                    Here is what my horse wears http://www.horseland.com.au/kool-coat-cotton-combo.html. Might be a problem if the other horses attack it though as it is very light weight and would tear.

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                    • #50
                      How to get a horse to eat just about anything;
                      1) Feed them peppermint candy as treats.
                      2) Add a small amount of liquid peppermint extract to whatever you want them to eat. The smell is so strong it overpowers anything else.

                      I have fed paprika for years, it keeps my black horses black. It works rapidly no matter when you feed it because winter, spring summer or fall their coats are constantly turning over. But be careful if you show, anything with capsaicin will give a positive drug test. I quit feeding it about 2 weeks before any competition.

                      If minerals and paprika aren't giving you results, I'd suggest it might be your water. If you hose off a lot in warm weather and your water is hard, it can cause them to bleach out. You can fix this by following each hosing up with a dilute vinegar rinse.

                      PS I think your horse is cute.
                      See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

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                      • #51
                        The sun fades the coat, but so does sweat. It isn't so much the salt, but the urea. Sweat has very, very low levels, but combined with the sun, it does a number on color

                        The non fading blacks (think Angus cattle, damn them!) apparently don't have any brown color in the hair at all, so when the black fades, only thing underneath to show through is...black. Or so I read somewhere, maybe via this very forum.

                        I have a nice seal brown mare, looks dazzling in the fall & spring, brindle in the summer. It stinks.

                        I used to ride a palomino & would love seeing his buttery coat come out in the spring. It faded, too. The gal that owned his brother used the paprika, but I never noticed that it worked. I don't think she was consistent with it, though.

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                        • #52
                          I'll be honest, I didn't read through everything, but I have a black horse that bleached. Isn't it just because of...the sun?

                          He started going out in a sun sheet whenever not blanketed and now he is black 24/7/365.
                          Originally posted by rustbreeches
                          [George Morris] doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, he prefers Dos Equis

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                          • #53
                            Yes, sun bleaches things quite well. But how much and how quickly something bleaches has to do with the quality of the pigment. Poor quality pigment, melanin in this case, fades worse than high quality melanin. Quality melanin requires ample copper, hence the nutritional link.
                            ______________________________
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                            • #54
                              Roughly how much copper would one add? I'm approaching it by feeding Glanzen 3, flax and copper/zinc.

                              Drives me nuts, I have a bay roan and a buckskin who fade, and a bay who does not. I've fed added copper/zinc in the form of hoof supplements to no avail. Maybe I didn't provide enough cu zn? Glanzen 3 seemed to have more than most.

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                              • #55
                                Can't say, since there are other factors involved, such as how much is in whatever concentrate you currently feed, whether your soil is high in iron, etc. I can only tell you I give a full serving of Poly Copper and Poly Zinc (since what makes Cu deficient likely makes Zn deficient as well), which is 310mg Cu and 670mg Zn.
                                ______________________________
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by JB View Post
                                  Can't say, since there are other factors involved, such as how much is in whatever concentrate you currently feed, whether your soil is high in iron, etc. I can only tell you I give a full serving of Poly Copper and Poly Zinc (since what makes Cu deficient likely makes Zn deficient as well), which is 310mg Cu and 670mg Zn.
                                  Is there any way to oversupplement these minerals, thereby throwing off the nutritional balance? Any "downside" to adding them to an already balanced ration, IOW?

                                  Just for future reference, since I have a black filly (I don't plan to worry about it while she's young and growing, but it will be good info to set aside for later on...)
                                  "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                                  "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

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                                  • #57
                                    Yes, you can over-supplement them. Too much Fe inhibits Cu and Zn, but too much Cu and Zn inhibits Fe Inhibits other things too, so...

                                    But remember that these are important for more than just coat-fading. You need enough for a strong immune system and many other body piece-parts.
                                    ______________________________
                                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      ^^^^ health before coat color but ....

                                      The way got I got into paprika maybe 8-10 years ago was I bought a beautiful black mare in Germany and brought her home to Southern California. She was so dark in Germany, I mean like blue-black. She arrived in SoCal at the end of January. By May she was orange. I had blood pulled to check her copper levels, she was fine. But even rinsing didn't really work. A sun sheet worked but her neck bleached out and it still looked funny.

                                      I started feeding a picnic spoon of the cheapest paprika I could buy daily-problem solved.

                                      Here is what she looks like now mid-summer.
                                      http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater
                                      Last edited by nhwr; Feb. 13, 2013, 12:36 AM.
                                      See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

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                                      • #59
                                        I wanted to bump this, it's now the middle of summer and I wanted to see how some of your "experiments" worked out!

                                        Anyone tried something for fading and happy with the results?

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