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ANOTHER Pentosan question...sorry :/

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  • ANOTHER Pentosan question...sorry :/

    I have (what i consider) 2 very amazing vets (both practicing from seperate clinics)...I have discussed with both of them the possibility of using Pentosan for my older geldings hock arthritis...problem is, they will NOT write me a script for it because they don't feel it's been on the market long enough to note any harmful, longterm side effects. It sounds like such an amazing "too good to be true" drug, and I sort of wanted to give it a shot...BUT I do have my reservations also, especially since my 2 vets won't allow me to try it. I'm not sure whether to go find a vet that WILL write me a script, and go against my other 2 vets or just find another alternative, ie hock injections, adequan...etc...Any advice would be awesome...TIA

  • #2
    This is an article posted by Thoroughbred Times about a year ago that disusses some of the testing done on Pentosan and what it is thought to actually DO in arthritic joints.

    http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/hor...8&type=hhjoint

    Comment


    • #3
      That's interesting. My vet didn't know much about it, but she did some research and wrote the Rx. I think she trusts my ability to research and evaluate - and given that I have a not-so-young horse who is unhappy if she isn't quite mobile, it seems a reasonable trade-off, even if there are some long term issues to monitor.

      Comment


      • #4
        If it's within your means, you could always try a course of Adequan to see if it helps.

        I'm not convinced it's miraculous in any way or better than Adequan, but the price difference is enormous and has made me more willing to use it.
        Click here before you buy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Based on ther article it sounds like a reasonable risk for a semi retired horse but not one in full work. I think ill stick with adequan
          www.destinationconsensusequus.com
          chaque pas est fait ensemble

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
            Based on ther article it sounds like a reasonable risk for a semi retired horse but not one in full work. I think ill stick with adequan
            What about the article made you feel that way? They indicated 14 episodes in the years of use, 13 of which were injection site reactions. I don't see how that would be cause for concern.

            Comment


            • #7
              It effects their ability to clot.
              www.destinationconsensusequus.com
              chaque pas est fait ensemble

              Comment


              • #8
                All PSGAGs have heparin-like actions. Which are transient and mild, generally speaking. Even pure heparin, when injected, has a half life of only several hours. Clotting parameters may not "return to normal" for 24 hours, but that does not mean there is a meaningful antithrombotic effect for that long a period.

                Would I give it to a horse 2 days before surgery? Certainly not. Other than that, I don't see much of a problem and don't know that adequan is any different, to be honest.
                Click here before you buy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                  All PSGAGs have heparin-like actions. Which are transient and mild, generally speaking. Even pure heparin, when injected, has a half life of only several hours. Clotting parameters may not "return to normal" for 24 hours, but that does not mean there is a meaningful antithrombotic effect for that long a period.

                  Would I give it to a horse 2 days before surgery? Certainly not. Other than that, I don't see much of a problem and don't know that adequan is any different, to be honest.
                  That's what I was thinking. The same is true of any NSAID we take, but we take them all the same, right?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Have you tried an HA oral supplement? They work really well for older horses with thinning cartilage, and some are as cheap as Pentosan. You could always get 3 tubes of Conquer and try the loading dose for a week as a low-cost test. If that works well, then you've successfully avoided the issue. If not, I'd do hock injections and either continue oral HA & MSM as maintenance or find a vet (or try to convince one of the 2 you already know) to write you that script.
                    "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." - The Little Prince

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by katyb View Post
                      That's what I was thinking. The same is true of any NSAID we take, but we take them all the same, right?
                      The risks of NSAIDs are all pretty much a class effect, but the so-called "blood thinning" effect of NSAIDs is completely different than that of PSGAGs. NSAIDs paralyze our platelets (reversible, other than in the case of aspirin, and a mild effect) whereas PSGAGs block the formation of clots via an entirely different route. Also reversible, and mild, but certainly not something to ignore. I have not seen any data showing that adequan has less of an antithrombotic effect than pentosan. Which is not to say it does or does not--I am not on top of every piece of data out there!
                      Click here before you buy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by retrofit View Post
                        Have you tried an HA oral supplement? They work really well for older horses with thinning cartilage, and some are as cheap as Pentosan. You could always get 3 tubes of Conquer and try the loading dose for a week as a low-cost test. If that works well, then you've successfully avoided the issue. If not, I'd do hock injections and either continue oral HA & MSM as maintenance or find a vet (or try to convince one of the 2 you already know) to write you that script.
                        Personally, I think the risk of adverse reaction to a hock injection is higher than the low risk of Pentosan IM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stryder View Post
                          Personally, I think the risk of adverse reaction to a hock injection is higher than the low risk of Pentosan IM.
                          Me too.
                          Click here before you buy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My vet had never heard of Pentosan. I pulled together some info and also gave him the link to this video.

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaRq7ZPcKeU

                            Could not get him to take the time and even watch the video. I even asked his office for a price and told them Wedgewood stocks it. Like talking to a brick wall!

                            Called out another vet clinic. Thought it very unprofessional that I could not even get a nay or yeh out of my vet that had serviced me here for several years. New vet came out and listened to what I had to say....which included "I do not need a lameness exam to know my horse has OA to this point". I told him that I had discussed options with the other vet and what they were, also told him I asked for prices (for each treatment we discussed) from that office and never got them, and finally told him my friends suggested trying pentosan cuz it was better and cheaper for Equine OA in most cases. Works better and cheaper sounds good to me!!!!

                            He said he had never heard of pentosan and described himself as a lameness vet. BUT...

                            He walked over to his truck. Googled it with his computer and did some quick reading. He then told me what he would do for the horse. I had already tried that with little improvement. So he gave me some Previcox and told me his office would be in touch within a day or 2 giving his general opinion and cost.

                            Long story short...had a price quote within about 4 business hrs and his blessing if I wanted to try. Afew months later my 25yr is off all NSAIDS and running around kicking up his heels like a 2 yr old.

                            The literature is out there. Do some internet sleuthing....cuz yes as Chezzie's link states they have been using it for 30 yrs in other parts of the world.

                            I am so impressed with Pentosan that I also started 3 old dogs on it. One of which improved dramatically in 4 days. The other 2 show only modest improvement.

                            I would never hesitate to try it again on other horse or dog if needs be. I am truly grateful to myself for moving on and being very proactive about my horse and pentosan. And my dog too. Geesh the old girl as so stiff even on NSAIDS she was getting up slow and had to walk out 20-30 minutes to shake off the stiffness. Now she trots around and does her "happy dance" for food again.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                              Based on ther article it sounds like a reasonable risk for a semi retired horse but not one in full work. I think ill stick with adequan
                              My horse is a show hunter in full work in a trainer's program. He has been on Pentosan for over a year, and through numerous cuts, scrapes, and turn out boo boos, he has never bled out.

                              OP, when I first brought Pentosan up to my vet, she had heard of it but never prescribed it. We have a good and long standing relationship, so she wrote me the script and asked me to keep her posted on my results. Her practice now prescribes Pentosan regularly.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Thanks for all the great responses! I think i'm going to call my favorite vet out of the two, and compile all the information I can about Pentosan and beg him to write me a script...Maybe he will relent...:-P

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by AzulBlue View Post
                                  Thanks for all the great responses! I think i'm going to call my favorite vet out of the two, and compile all the information I can about Pentosan and beg him to write me a script...Maybe he will relent...:-P
                                  You shouldn't have to beg. Tell him you have done your homework, have considered the pros and cons, risks and benefits, and with all due respect you would like to hear specifics as to why he would not recommend this product. If you're satisfied with his explanation, there is always Adequan, which is also a very good product and IME more vets are comfortable with it because it has been widely used in the US for many years.
                                  Click here before you buy.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                    You shouldn't have to beg. Tell him you have done your homework, have considered the pros and cons, risks and benefits, and with all due respect you would like to hear specifics as to why he would not recommend this product. If you're satisfied with his explanation, there is always Adequan, which is also a very good product and IME more vets are comfortable with it because it has been widely used in the US for many years.
                                    @Delta...does Adequan do JUST as good as Pentosan? Or would hock injections be best? With YOUR experience, what would be your 1st choice? 2nd?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I would probably use Adequan if it were priced better, just simply due to weight of evidence. Pentosan "wins" in my calculus because of the cost differential. I don't see it as 1/5th as effective as Adequan but the price is 1/5th! I would consider the two much closer than that in efficacy.

                                      Joint injections are the LAST thing I would use if the other options included IM products. It's not that I don't think they're helpful but the risk is MUCH higher and IM products hit ALL the joints, not just one or two.

                                      And I wouldn't even put oral supplements in this discussion, FWIW. They are orders of magnitude less important/useful IMO.
                                      Last edited by deltawave; Jan. 21, 2013, 03:07 PM. Reason: needless hyperbole :p
                                      Click here before you buy.

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