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EPM Shake didn't work...on to Marquis...any advice??

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  • #21
    Ina 22yo horse I suspect an x-ray will show SOME arthritic changes regardless...and the last thing you want to do to a potential EPM horse is inject a steriod. I would not inject any horse that "might" have EPM.

    My guy was 18 when diagnosed. He was actually missed diagnosed and his hocks and stifles were injected with steriods, which, sent him into EPM overload. By the time we started the Marquis it was too late and I lost him.

    Prior to the injections his symptoms were fairly mild...would swap leads behind, refused to pick up the left lead most of the time, would trip on occasion (but not go down) and some slight weight loss. Once he was injected it wasnt 2 days and he started going down hill quickly. Unable to walk a straight line, would trip and fall, then the spinning and falling started. It was unsafe to even get the medicine in him.

    Its a nasty, nasty thing and I hate for anyone to have to go through it. We have A LOT of possums in the area but at no time did my "well known and established" vet mention EPM...it was actually a younger vet who came out to see the horse after the injections who said it...that was the first word out of her mouth when she saw him.
    Never Ride Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly
    Way Back Texas~04/20/90-09/17/08
    Green Alligator "Captain"


    • #22
      Remember that IV tetracycline-family drugs can have fairly significant systemic anti-inflammatory effects, so an animal that "gets better on oxytet" may only be showing signs of reduced inflammation which may have nothing to do with any infection going on. This might include a nerve root compression from cervical spine injury, arthritis, etc.
      Click here before you buy.


      • #23
        As you rule out other things, investigate "Pathogenes" website. I have had 5 EPM horses and my best success was with the testing and protocols from Pathogenes.
        I wish you the best.


        • #24
          5 EPM horses diagnosed exclusively by Pathogenes, I'm guessing?
          Click here before you buy.


          • #25
            Originally posted by deltawave View Post
            5 EPM horses diagnosed exclusively by Pathogenes, I'm guessing?
            Always the cynic, aren't you? Are you on Bayer's payroll?

            Funny how so many horses actually GET BETTER after diagnosis and treatment using the Pathogenes protocol.


            • #26
              Always the cynic, aren't you? Are you on Bayer's payroll?
              Yes, thank you. And no to the Bayer part. I'm pretty vociferously on the record speaking out against ridiculous markups of proven drugs. Proven, of course, being the key word. And everyone is free to value that as highly as they wish. I place it pretty high.

              Better is better. But if a diagnosis is incorrect and the improvement might have happened anyway, taking credit (although it harms nobody physically) is ethically questionable in my book. Anxiously awaiting the peer-reviewed publication of the data they claim to be collecting so assiduously.
              Click here before you buy.


              • #27
                Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                Yes, thank you. And no to the Bayer part. I'm pretty vociferously on the record speaking out against ridiculous markups of proven drugs. Proven, of course, being the key word. And everyone is free to value that as highly as they wish. I place it pretty high.

                Better is better. But if a diagnosis is incorrect and the improvement might have happened anyway, taking credit (although it harms nobody physically) is ethically questionable in my book. Anxiously awaiting the peer-reviewed publication of the data they claim to be collecting so assiduously.
                You are right, better is better. And my horse is one that DID get better after being diagnosed and treated using the Pathogenes protocol. Mind you, this was AFTER he had been NQR for several years. And AFTER the standard Western Blot came up negative for EPM. It was the PATHOGENES test that diagnosed him, and the PATHOGENES treatment that made him better. As stated several times before, he has been in solid work for the past 8 months - for the first time in 2-3 years - and is building muscle on his topline and in his haunches, and is really progressing well in his training (did some loverly piaffe yesterday! ).

                So if you want to keep waiting for "peer-reviewed data", that is okay with me. My proof is in the pudding, and I see him out dancing around the arena like a real dressage horse now.


                • #28
                  1. They don't really do spinal taps for EPM anymore - they do a blood titer that is sent to UC Davis and is quite accurate as to exposure levels. Treatment is often based on the results of this test. The test is around $100, I believe, and is well worth doing.
                  My horse was tested via UC Davis recently, with the results coming back as negative. I took him to a large, well known clinic for a comprehensive neuro workup, which included a spinal tap. The spinal tap came back positive. Both my regular vet and the specialist at the clinic indicated that a spinal tap is the best test for determining EPM status. This was only a month ago.

                  FWIW, we did digital neck X-rays in the field, with additional images taken at the clinic. We also scoped the horse and would have moved on to the myelogram if that had been deemed necessary.

                  All that said, this is a promising young horse. If I had a 22-year-old, yes I would pursue neck radiographs, and if those did not show significant degeneration or narrowing, I would probably just try the Marquis. That does not sound like an unreasonable course of action IMO.


                  • #29
                    Hey guys... can we NOT turn this in to yet ANOTHER p****** match about Pathogenes?

                    If you want empirical data go with Marquis.

                    If you are willing to give something a shot that hasn't been completely through the peer review process, but has quite a bit of anecdotal results go pathogenes.

                    And if you want to read about ALL of the other catfights on this board about it, type "pathogenes" into a search engine.
                    The ninja monkeys are plotting my demise as we speak....


                    • #30
                      Couldn't have said it better myself. Different strokes for different folks!
                      Click here before you buy.


                      • #31
                        I learned about Dr. Sioban Ellison and Pathogenes with EPM horse #4. He had had multiple rounds of suspension and Marquis, with little improvement. After her testing and med protocol, though now retired, he is the most normal he has ever been.
                        I wish I has know about her research years ago.
                        Of the five, two died as a result of their EPM (one confirmed at necropsy), one lived a long and productive life and died of colic(she was diagnosed by CSF tap), I still have one and the last one is in a new home and I am not sure of his status.
                        I feel so lucky to have been lead to Pathogenes for the sake of the horse who has benefitted. My vet is now a believer and has a couple of success stories as well.
                        I think I had horses on a possum farm, not the other way around!
                        I wish the best for anyone who is dealing with this.
                        Last edited by csb; Jan. 1, 2013, 10:41 AM. Reason: Add info