• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

How long is too long to give bute? Possible diagnosis of Laminitis. Update in OP.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How long is too long to give bute? Possible diagnosis of Laminitis. Update in OP.

    I am giving my horse 1gram twice a day (1100 lbs). I know some people that bute daily for years but others that won't but more than a week.


    UPDATE: The farrier came out today. I was not there, he wasn't scheduled to see my guy but the BM was great and asked him to take a peak. He says there is a ring of new growth up high and where it meets the old growth it's collapsing and is probably pinching the lamanae. He prescribes shoes with fill and pads plus a switch to a low starch grain and hoof supplement. I have scheduled him to come back tomorrow.
    Last edited by PrimoAmor; Dec. 21, 2012, 07:41 PM. Reason: New update.

  • #2
    Depends on the horse. I have one that cannot tolerate even one dose. I had another who was on a half gram twice a day for over a year and did very well until his condition progressed and we put him down.

    Use as little as possible for as short as possible, IMO. Try to find other ways to manage the pain if you can, and if you can't....consider the horse in front of you. Some do fine on long term bute. Some should probably just be euthanized if long term bute is truly the ONLY option (my mare would be one.)

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Thanks for the response

      My horse is only seven and the issue is relatively minor. At least that is the current thought.

      Comment


      • #4
        Many years ago, my aged gelding was on daily bute for almost 4 years straight. Daily dose varied to fit his need, as little as 1/2g to 4g if he really was 3 legged. We had no alternative at the time, and while I didn't like it he seemed no worse for wear. A radical change to his lifestyle and (luckily for my wallet) discovering some cheap effective anti inflams and he's been bute free for the last 9-10 years.

        About 7 years ago, this gelding had an accident on pavement and vet ordered bute and rest. In two days he lost his appetite and on the third he was spending most of his day down and unwilling to get up. I very nearly lost him to ulcers. He rebounded on a course of ulcerguard.

        Some horses handle long term bute just fine. Some, like mine, pay for it later down the road.

        Especially if the issue is minor you might have a good chance of finding another way to handle it.
        Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

        Comment


        • #5
          Talk to your vet about doing Equioxx/ Previcox instead.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Highflyer View Post
            Talk to your vet about doing Equioxx/ Previcox instead.
            Ditto. Although expensive, I had one very aged horse on Equioxx daily for over five years without a problem. Two other horses on Previcox long-term with no issues.

            Comment


            • #7
              "How long" really depends on the horse and the dosage. 2gm/day is quite a lot for long-term use, or really anything more than a day or two, but is sometimes necessary.

              What is the "relatively minor" issue? Most of the time, the recommendation is 1gm am and pm for a day or two, then 1gm for a few more days up to a week or so, if you're addressing a minor issue that you just want to control quickly, or if you're doing a test to see if bute addresses a lameness issue.

              That gives you some perspective.

              Bute for more than 1-2 days would have me doing at least ranitidine twice a day, or even Ulcer/Gastoguard if it's a known sensitive horse.
              ______________________________
              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

              Comment


              • #8
                We use previcoxx now for our 26yr old mare, she has arthritis everywhere and is comfortable without it, but pretty darn sound on 1/4 pill a day. I think it's the least we can do for her years of loyally carrying my little sister!

                Comment


                • #9
                  As others said, I think it depends.

                  If it were me and I had a younger horse with an undiagnosed problem and was just using bute like I'd use ibuprofen for myself for some minor inflammation, I'd probably not go more than a couple of days without doing a workup to figure out exactly what was wrong. If the vet deemed it necessary to be on bute longer term, I'd just want to make sure we were monitoring organ function and keeping an eye out for ulcers. (or I'd also consider equioxx)

                  If my horse were older and had some pretty major arthritic changes that Adequan wasn't covering and it was bute else euth, I'd give bute. (And I did...for 5 years with my BuddyRoo--checked labs every 6 mod to monitor organ function, never had issues with ulcers or organs)
                  A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                  Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BuddyRoo View Post
                    As others said, I think it depends.

                    If it were me and I had a younger horse with an undiagnosed problem and was just using bute like I'd use ibuprofen for myself for some minor inflammation, I'd probably not go more than a couple of days without doing a workup to figure out exactly what was wrong. If the vet deemed it necessary to be on bute longer term, I'd just want to make sure we were monitoring organ function and keeping an eye out for ulcers. (or I'd also consider equioxx)

                    If my horse were older and had some pretty major arthritic changes that Adequan wasn't covering and it was bute else euth, I'd give bute. (And I did...for 5 years with my BuddyRoo--checked labs every 6 mod to monitor organ function, never had issues with ulcers or organs)
                    That.
                    Years ago, before any other out there, we had a retired horse with an old injury that we kept on bute for two years, before even bute was not helping and we had to euthanize him.

                    The bute gave him a good quality of life for those two years without any obvious discomfort.

                    For an acute need on a young active horse, a few days of bute, if it agrees with your horse, should be fine.
                    Just be sure you are not covering something serious that needs other management than bute.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      JINGLES & AO ~ Great suggestions given here ~

                      Jingles & AO for your horse ~

                      nothing to add "sound" advice already posted here ~

                      Happy Holidays !
                      Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Simkie View Post
                        Depends on the horse. I have one that cannot tolerate even one dose.

                        Use as little as possible for as short as possible, IMO.
                        Ditto this. Some horses are extremely sensitive to bute--and it's virtually impossible to determine that before you give it. I have a mare that developed chronic right dorsal colitis after just a few doses. She tolerates Equioxx but I'm still very careful with it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't give bute without some sort of ulcer preventative. For an otherwise healthy young horse, max 5-7 days. For an older horse that needs it to be comfortable, indefinitely so long as the horse tolerates it.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Thank you everyone for your advice. We are using bute to try and pinpoint what is going on. Horse is not lame, no heat or swelling but has something going on that we cannot figure out exactly. Does a hop and slight head bob going right picking up the trot. Also while free jumping does not want to land on his right lead. Seems to be a little dull. With bute he seems more lively but still does the hop. Moved a lot nicer with a neck stretcher on the lunge. I'm thinking the hop is an under developed top line and not moving from behind so he hops to lift his forehand up to move forward. It is more pronounced to the right. He is OTTB so maybe he just favors/moves better to the left.

                            I'm working to get video for all you COTH experts but I am down with a back injury and can't ride which is also making diagnosis hard since I can't see if the bute has effected his undersaddle temperment/trot. Unfortunately there is no budget for lameness specialists or expensive drugs. I'm hoping a little bute, some time off and some easy lunge sessions might help.

                            ETA: Just looked back at this summer's Free Jumping and he landed on his right lead without any problems. Only change I know of is he is now barefoot. Maybe his TB tooties are too sensitive to be barefoot. Will ask if the barn farrier will shoe him next round.
                            Last edited by PrimoAmor; Dec. 19, 2012, 05:03 PM. Reason: More info.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PrimoAmor View Post
                              Horse is not lame, no heat or swelling but has something going on that we cannot figure out exactly. Does a hop and slight head bob going right picking up the trot. Also while free jumping does not want to land on his right lead. Seems to be a little dull. With bute he seems more lively but still does the hop. Moved a lot nicer with a neck stretcher on the lunge. I'm thinking the hop is an under developed top line and not moving from behind so he hops to lift his forehand up to move forward. It is more pronounced to the right. He is OTTB so maybe he just favors/moves better to the left.
                              I would definitely ask your vet or farrier to check for an abscess. Sounds exactly what I went through with my OTTB last year during our first winter together. Been there, done that, doing it again right now with my horse... Nothing like soaking & hand-walking when it's 19 degrees. Shoes are my horse's best friends. If you are really committed to going barefoot, you may want to start using a sole toughener like Durasole once an abscess is ruled out. Good luck!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I nearly lost a horse due to ulcers that developed after only a couple of days on bute, so I am uber sensitive about not giving bute unless it is life or death! Current horse is prone to ulcers so if she ever truly needs bute (never has yet), I will definitely be giving her omeprazole with it. I agree with as little as possible for a short as possible and I would use it only as a last resort.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  My older, retired mare with pretty crippling chronic arthritis (1700 lb WB) gets 3g bute every other day, and has gotten this regimen for about 6 years now. She has not had any issues.

                                  My delicate, ulcer-prone TB mare only gets Equioxx because she's ulcer prone and giving her bute makes her weave and not eat. :/

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Omeprazole doesn't prevent/treat colonic ulcers.

                                    Good article on ulcers (gastric and colonic): http://www.ker.com/library/proceedin...Ulcers_p31.pdf
                                    Last edited by zipperfoot; Dec. 20, 2012, 01:54 PM. Reason: forgot link to article

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Equioxx has been a lifesaver (literally) for my horse. He tolerates it very well, and is down to 2 doses a week. He has arthritis and is doing much better with the Equioxx. We started it every day and slowly took him down to 2x/week without a loss of comfort. Will probably increase to 3x/week as the weather gets colder.

                                      Just a guess, but have you had his hocks examined? My guy started resisting lead changes in one direction as his hocks started to wear. Shot in the dark but might be worth a conversation with the vet.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        My gelding's been on Bute for about a month now due to low-grade laminitis. I'm not too worried about it.

                                        I use the powdered form, and I mix it into some soaked pellets, so he doesn't get it on an empty stomach. He also gets it either right after breakfast or just before dinner.

                                        I haven't looked into this theory at all, but it seems to me that it's probably similar to a person taking Ibuprofen. You are supposed to take it with food to avoid stomach upset, so I don't know why it would be any different for horses.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X