• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Posting in here as well...Anxious horse...trainer? vet?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Posting in here as well...Anxious horse...trainer? vet?

    So, I've posted about this mare a few times. Back story is that she is a 7 year old OTTB, retired at 2 after 5 starts, sound. Got her through New Vocations. When she arrived in my barn she was a hellion. I could barely enter her stall let alone ride her. When she was tacked up she would grind her teeth and pin her ears. So I said OK, I'll leave you alone. So for a year all the interaction I had with her besides basic care, was feeding and turnout.

    At 3 1/2 she moved to a farm with 24/7 turnout where she was sat on maybe 2X the entire time she was there, no real riding. She was there for 2 years. BTW she is a cribber and that continued there, she would leave the herd to go crib on the side of the run in.

    At 5 1/2 I brought her home to me and starting doing ground work with her, lunging. Did one ride on her and then she sliced her hind leg open and was out of commission for 6+ months.

    At 6 I starting riding her consistently. Well, as consistently as I can get out which is sometimes 3X a week, sometimes 1X a week. During my rides she is very forward, wanting to jig, trot, no relaxation at all. Head is tucked toward chest, she is on the bit and pulling, she won't relax even to walk. If she is asked to trot and then walk again, she is so tense and anxious that she prances and grinds her teeth and bobs her head UP and DOWN.

    I have spent months just walking and trotting, I even spent two weeks only walking. No improvement. She is always anxious.

    For the last two months she has been on 24/7 turnout only coming in to eat. She is eating 9# of Strategy daily, with 4 flakes of grass hay daily. I ride her 3 times a week and I'm just frustrated. We are getting nowhere, she won't relax. She grinds her teeth non stop.

    So, at this point I'm thinking it must be pain. She moves quietly and comfortably without me on her. I doubt its me, she is that anxious with any rider, but it could be the tack that is causing her pain, or back pain with a rider on her.

    She does not react to any palpating to her back. She does have sometimes snappy stifles and hocks. I've never had her injected, nor had the chiropractor out, but I'm thinking it might be time (for chiro not injections).

    Any help??

    Post 2
    I agree with ulcers. However, I forgot to mention I did 30 days on poprocks and did not see ANY difference. I will take the advice though and get her scoped, it's not too pricey and would give me a definitive answer.

    Also, I would LOVE to let her go forward but her legs just keep getting faster and faster and she hauls like a freight train, to the point the nothing is getting accomplished. I have done circles, serpentines, etc trying to keep her mind busy and she doesn't ease up at all.

    Also, I am open to suggestions on the grain front. She hasn't always been on that amount of grain, she used to be on mainly beet pulp with 3# daily of Strategy Healthy Edge, but then she choked 3X on the beet pulp (soaked 12 hrs) and I've nixed it from her diet. She loses weight rapidly when she doesn't have a good amount of grain, no matter the amount of hay and grass. When I had her at home for a few months I fed her 45lbs of alfalfa daily but she still didn't keep the weight on without grain and beet pulp. Yes, she is dewormed regularly and fecals done.

    She has the sweetest temperament, really easy going horse. I forgot to mention as well that along with the cribbing she weaves like it's going out of style.

    Looks like a vet workup is in order.

  • #2
    The mare at one point was eating 45 pounds of alfalfa hay a day?

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      A bale, which I assume by lifting it weighed about 45lbs, which was mostly alfalfa, yes. Is that insane or something? Not understanding the question. I gave her free choice hay in an attempt to up her weight and that's how much she ate.

      Comment


      • #4
        45 lbs of alfalfa hay, or a full bale is way, way too much. Did you type that correctly? And if you did how long has the horse been eating that amount?

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          OK well it was only a month, she put on weight well while I had her at home. I threw her flakes throughout the day I would say on average she ate 2/3-3/4 of a bale daily. It was second cut, I assume it was a blend alfalfa. I guess I don't see what the issue is? Tons of people feed free choice hay? Anyway, that was well over a year ago. For 9 months she was boarded at a place that only fed like 5-10lbs of hay daily and I was supplementing her with alfalfa cubes soaked since she was super ribby. Two months ago she was moved to where she is currently where she is turned out 24/7 and gets the 9# of Strategy and four 3-4# flakes of grass hay. She is currently lighty ribby. There is no grass left in the turnouts, just nubs.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd take her off alfalfa and put her on timothy or grass hay. If you want her to have a little alfalfa, limit it to 2-3 flakes per day. Alfalfa typically makes horses 'hot' tempered. Also, being a TB, she could possibly be more calm if she is in consistent, more strenuous work.

            It could be pain or ulcers, but she could just be a bit hot as it is and then with a lot of alfalfa on top of it and minimal work, she has no way of burning off all that energy...

            I'd take her off alfalfa and increase her workload (as long as pain is ruled out)

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              It's been 2 months without a drop of alfalfa, and before that 9 months of only 3# of alfalfa cubes every other day. I really doubt its the alfalfa, but thanks the taking the time to write your advice. I must admit I've always suspected ulcers and it might be time to fully investigate that avenue.

              Comment


              • #8
                I would pursue the ulcer as a possibility as well. I would also change how I was working her..if she were mine. I would explore reward based training where she could start to think differently about your sessions. I have a horse that would respond to my que to move forward by getting nervous and just going faster. As soon as I added food rewards for very specific behavior responses...she calmed right down and started looking to me and waiting for me to 'tell' her what we were going to do next. It started to change the process of understanding and learning for her.

                I also spend some time during a riding session just letting my girl stop and rest. It allows them to completely relax with no pressure...I have a couple of horses that improved their attitude when I picked up the reins again. Just something to try and see if it helps you.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Ticker, could you give me a bit more information on the technique you used while riding. I have found that treat based rewards really keep her interested, ie when teaching her to clip, mane pulling, etc.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I reread your whole post. Basically, this is a horse who has been sitting around doing nothing for 5 years and really, aside from the injury layup, I don't know why you haven't been doing anything with her this whole time? Ulcers could be the case, however I don't think she's been doing anything to warrant having ulcers at this point - she probably had them when she came off the track (hence the grumpiness, pinning ears etc) but now, it is not the most likely scenario - at least not for her to have them bad enough to be causing THIS much of an issue. However, since she's pretty much been a pasture potato for 5 years, you are essentially working with a barely broke 7 yr old - have you tried putting her with a trainer for 30 days if you are not capable of starting her over?

                    Maybe get a chiro out and adjust her? Check her tack, including her bit (she may need something with rollers or keys to help keep her mind off of grinding her teeth) and you can get her scoped for ulcers. But you may just need to put her in training and start working her. Work her through the issues. Rather than just walk around on her if she is nervous, why not try jogging her and doing a bunch of circles, serpentines, etc. Keep your reins loose and don't tense up. Just jog her for a while. You may not be giving her enough time to settle down while you are on her. If you keep your reins tight, she may be reacting like a typical racehorse - tight reins = go faster (and tense up)

                    That said, maybe you already do everything I mentioned. Just thought I'd mention it.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I'll post a video in a second of me riding her. I guess I probably need to do the vet check and then send her to the trainer. I have done the trotting and changing directions, I have tried nice loose reins and slowing my post, but she barrels faster and faster until she starts cantering, even when I'm sitting tall, posting lightly and saying "easy, whoa."

                      I refuse to say that she is basically unbroke. She has been ridden enough to be broke. Green, sure. Uneducated in how to use her body correctly, yes.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=...type=3&theater

                        Let me know if you can see this video, I'm not sure if my privacy settings are on or not.

                        If you can see it you can notice that sometimes she braces on my hands quite hard, sometimes she gapes her mouth open. This was a relatively good day for her.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=...e=3&permPage=1

                          Other direction where you can see that if I ease up with my hands she tries to jump into a canter.

                          Also, wanted to add, I have committed to riding her three days a week minimum and I have the BM starting to ride her 2 days a week starting next week. I talked to BM earlier in the week and we hope that with the upped work schedule she will ease some of her nervous habits. She is on 24/7 turnout.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Cantering http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=...type=3&theater

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              TBs that are race trained are taught to "lean" on your hands. It feels like they are pulling or very heavy on your hands. This helps them to go faster because they have something to push against. It also has them unbalanced so they are sort of barreling down hill. The more unbalanced a horse is (from back to front) the faster they will go and the harder they will pull. My TB gelding will pull like a freight train and go faster and faster if he isn't balanced. When we first got him it took quite a while to get him balanced so he could "carry himself" and not lean on his rider's hands. Basically we did lots and lots of 20 meter circles at the trot using half halts to help him balance. It took time for him to develop the muscling over his top line that allowed him to maintain his own balance for longer periods of time with less "help". Does that make sense?
                              Your mare is green but she likely has no idea how to carry herself in a calm balanced way.
                              "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I see a very well behaved, green, confused, unbalanced horse with a rider trying so hard to be 'light', the rider is just doing.... nothing. The mare isn't rushing. She's just unbalanced and not being asked to step into contact. She's actually not moving very fast, it just seems quick because her stride is short and choppy (again, green, unbalanced). She 'jumps' into the canter because you have absolutely no leg on her and no consistent, following contact, so when you do bump her or drop the reins, she says "oh, faster!'. Same reason she's gaping her mouth, your hands aren't following with a consistent contact. Sit up, put your leg on, keep a soft, consistent feel of the reins and ride. She looks (at least in this video) like she's very honest and pretty calm, just confused about what's being asked of her. I'm not seeing nervous/high strung behavior at ALL, just typical green/out of shape horse.
                                .

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Apparently I've given the wrong impression. She is NOT high strung or hot at all. She is nervous, grinding teeth, etc. Ugh, it's just so hard to explain. I'm guessing perhaps I just don't have the skill to teach her. She is not bad, at all, she is an angel. But she doesn't want to give to the bit at all. She won't stand still at the halt. She won't walk from the moment I get on until I get off, its walk-jig-walk-jig.

                                  I completely agree, I don't use ANY leg on her at all. When I do she's off like a bullet.

                                  Like I said, maybe I just don't have the skill set to teach her. She is a good girl, but I can't get her to relax at all.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I agree with BigGreyHunter. You are trying to stay light and instead are too far forward and ahead of the motion. You need to sit up and slow yourself down. Post slower, bring your upper body back and she will follow your lead. Change things up on her...circles, serpentines, figure 8s, transitions. Make sure your aids are consistent when you ask for these.

                                    I would also take her off the strategy and feed something lower in sugar. And try to keep her schedule consistent...5-6 days of work, even if it is lunging a couple of these days. A lot of TBs just do better on a daily work schedule.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Bedazzle View Post
                                      I completely agree, I don't use ANY leg on her at all. When I do she's off like a bullet.

                                      Like I said, maybe I just don't have the skill set to teach her. She is a good girl, but I can't get her to relax at all.
                                      First, Get her off the strategy!! Put her on something very low in sugar and high in fat. I had an OTTB years ago that could not handle ANY sweet feed.

                                      Second, have you taught her to stand at the halt, or walk quietly? These are not things they just know naturally; they have to be taught to OTTBs. I used to stand in the middle of the ring during lesson hours on my OTTBs and just make them chill out. It takes a lot of patience but they need to learn how to do this; it does not always come natural.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I would say a trainer would be able to help you a LOT. A horse can't give to the bit if you can't put leg on. It's something she has to learn to accept. Same with halting/walking calmly.
                                        .

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X