• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Reverse Engineering my Mare's SmartPak

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Reverse Engineering my Mare's SmartPak

    I'm about to start a new job that will free me from an atrocious commute. However, I traded some salary for this hugely improved quality of life.

    My horse has been on the same set of supplements for nearly a year (some items much longer).

    MSM
    Farrier's Formula Double Strength
    A.B.C.'s Plus (probiotic)

    So, I am reverse-engineering mare's smartpak supplements, to see if I can buy in bulk, divvy into reusable containers myself, and save money while still keeping things convenient for my BO. And creating less trash.

    The devil is in the details, and the detail that makes this hard is shipping.

    KV Vet has free shipping and has the best price on ABC's Plus.

    It appears that SmartPak is close to the best price on the rest, but I can't make sense of the recommended maintenance dose of the Farrier's Formula Double Strength.

    And does anyone know where to find reusable plastic containers w/ ATTACHED lids to use for batching these up for my BO?

    Also, does anyone want to explain to me 1) does it matter which MSM I use? And if it matters, how can I tell which is 'best'?
    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09


  • #2
    When I made up "smartpaks" because the barn wasn't feeding the supplements to our horse, I used Ziplock snack sized bags and wrote the days of the week on them and put them in a bucket so all they had to do was reach in and grab one.

    At the end of the week I just refilled the empty ones - this also made it very easy to know which days had been missed, if any.

    Comment


    • #3
      Why not do a "supplement holiday" and give her 90 days without them, observe carefully, then add back as needed? She might surprise you, and then you can keep the money.
      Click here before you buy.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        I appreciate the idea, DW, but I am very hesitant to take her off the probiotic, because the last time I did, she colicked. I can't be 100% certain that there is a direct relationship between those 2 things, but it's not a bet I'm willing to make.

        In the time she's been on A.B.C.'s Plus, her coat has improved visibly -- she has hardly any scurf or dandruff when I curry her, and she has a great bloom.

        MSM appears to have at least some clinical research supporting its usefulness at reducing symptoms of arthritis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylsulfonylmethane

        She has been on Farrier's Formula for years. (5+?) In 5 years she has maybe pulled a shoe 3x, and had 2 abscesses. When she came off the track, she had what I would call not great feet. Now, farrier happy, horse not having any trouble. I think, if not broke, don't change anything?

        If anyone can recommend a cheaper substitute for Farrier's Formula, I would love to hear it. Isn't the biotin the ingredient that matters most in FF?
        I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
        I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Lori B View Post
          MSM appears to have at least some clinical research supporting its usefulness at reducing symptoms of arthritis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylsulfonylmethane

          She has been on Farrier's Formula for years. (5+?) In 5 years she has maybe pulled a shoe 3x, and had 2 abscesses. When she came off the track, she had what I would call not great feet. Now, farrier happy, horse not having any trouble. I think, if not broke, don't change anything?

          If anyone can recommend a cheaper substitute for Farrier's Formula, I would love to hear it. Isn't the biotin the ingredient that matters most in FF?

          Well, after five years you may have gotten all the good you're going to out of a hoof supplement. My previous farrier (the been around a million years type, spent years working at a track and then did sport horse shoeing) told me that the longest he'd leave a horse on a hoof supplement was a year. After that you're just making expensive urine (not a *exact*quote

          Just something to think about

          Comment


          • #6
            i bet you can lower the dose of farriers formula double dose to the single dose without losing any hoof quality. Buy the farriers formula but only give 1/2 dose. Will last twice as long. 11lb bucket of FF double strength will last you 120 days and an 11 lb bucket of regular strength will only last 60 days. Its quite a deal and a sham all at the same time

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              ActNatural, yep, reading the fine print, we are already doing that. :-)

              CallMeGold, I was wondering the same thing. Hmmmmm.
              I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
              I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

              Comment


              • #8
                Coming off the track, many horses are coming from high sugar diets and not great hoof care. It's far more likely the improved feet have everything to do with better hoof care and a better diet, and little to do (now) with the FF. I'd drop that no questions asked.
                ______________________________
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                Comment


                • #9
                  I buy my MSM in 10lb containers from horse.com, its the cheapest I've found. They currently have $10 off $75 and free shipping if its over $99

                  http://www.horse.com/item/select-the-best-msm/E003889/

                  to my knowledge, biotin is one of the more important aspects of FF, but its also the copper and zinc too. Rather than FF, I prefer Horsetech BioFlax Ultra which is 78¢ per day for 30mg biotin, rather than FF at $1.17 for 20mgs biotin

                  oops sorry, link http://www.horsetech.com/bioflax-ultra.html
                  Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    buck22, that would work if I were going to buy anything else from horse.com. MSM is pretty easy to get good deals on, since it doesn't have 3,156 different ingredients. :-)

                    I haven't shopped at this site before. do you like them?
                    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, I buy pretty regularly from them. They almost always have a coupon code going (just found another one, $10 off $75 PLUS free shipping 0FA306X7GE), and they tend to stock consumables I use a lot. IIRC they have the best price on 5 gal cocosoya oil too.

                      I haven't bought much in the way of tack, blankets, etc., however so I can't speak to that.
                      Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Or here you go, $5 off $30, but no free ship
                        ABHRS5D

                        oooh, animed msm is even cheaper http://www.horse.com/item/animed-pure-msm/SLT700318/
                        Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          When in doubt, make a spreadsheet

                          Please see the inserted screen capture.

                          Click image for larger version

Name:	SupplementRe-Work.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	101.6 KB
ID:	9135454

                          Spreadsheets are good.

                          If I switch to buying ABC's Plus & MSM in bulk from KV Supply (which ships free) and discontinue the Farrier's Formula and bag the supplements myself each month, I will save over $500 per year, plus all that packaging trash.
                          I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                          I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Instead of the ABC's Plus, why not Probios? It's a heck of a lot cheaper, but only available in powder form, if that's a problem. Or even Smartpak's SmartDigest, which is even cheaper than the Probios.

                            As for MSM, the best quality with the cheapest price (IMO) is the Select the Best. Just be sure to look at the dosage size, since all are not the same. (the StB has 10,000 mg, IIRC)

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Select the Best is the best price, assuming we are comparing identical supplements. But if the only thing I order from Horse.com is this supplement, then I have to pay shipping, and the .02 savings over KV Supply disappears.

                              The dosages are very similar (9,600 or so compared to 10k).

                              As for Probios, it is less expensive, but ABC's includes calcium, phosphorus, calcium, & zinc. I am not sure what difference those ingredients make with regard to probiotic support. But that appears to be one difference.
                              I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                              I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Anyone familiar with Focus WT? Good price, and all the main ingredients of ABC's Plus. Hmm.
                                I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                                I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Keep in mind that some of the probiotics (probios for example) do not stay happy in less than ideal conditions. I made my own supplement packs many years back and in the summer the probios always turned into a huge solid clump and changed color from more white to more yellow.

                                  That is one of the advantages of Smartpaks, your supplements stay all sealed in their little cells until time for use.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    If I keep the big containers at home (in the air conditioning) I am assuming that problem will be solved. Yes? Is the problem time, or is it heat / humidity?
                                    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                                    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Going back to the original problem of shipping charges... Had to put my thinking cap on, but remembered that Bit of Britain does not charge freight. They carry the Vita Flex brand MSM, but not the ABC's Plus nor even Probios. They do however carry other digestive supplements, so might be worth checking in to and seeing if they carry anything you might would consider using. Unfortunately, their supplement selection isn't the biggest, but then they've always been more of just an eventing tack/gear store rather than an all-around horse item store.

                                      It's hard, because everyone (besides SmartPak, natch) charges extra for weight. I know Big D's sometimes offers free weight shipping, but those specials are few and far inbetween. You might want to check what you could get these products for at your local feed/tack store and compare that versus what price+weight from someone else would cost.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        realrush, all good ideas.

                                        I have decided that I am still willing to pay for the convenience of shipping, because it doesn't make sense (for me) to create a bunch of extra trips to 3 different tack/feed shops to save small amounts of $.

                                        The new recipe is:

                                        Focus WT (probiotic / weight)
                                        VitaFlex MSM
                                        Animed 100 Biotin supplement

                                        This bundle, purchased from KV Supply (and Southern States near my house), comes to $21.68 (28 days), and replaces:

                                        ABC's Plus
                                        SmartPak MSM
                                        Farrier's Formula

                                        that ran to $62.85 per 28 days.

                                        This saves over $535 a year. All I have to do is bag it up once a month, and order the containers when they run low.
                                        I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                                        I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X