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Reverse Engineering my Mare's SmartPak

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  • #21
    Originally posted by callmegold View Post
    Well, after five years you may have gotten all the good you're going to out of a hoof supplement. My previous farrier (the been around a million years type, spent years working at a track and then did sport horse shoeing) told me that the longest he'd leave a horse on a hoof supplement was a year. After that you're just making expensive urine (not a *exact*quote

    Just something to think about
    I used to go to the feed mill and ask for bulk biotin. MUCH cheaper than any premade formula.......

    Comment


    • #22
      replace farriers formula with human biotin 7500mcg x 2 tablets daily = 15mg which is about the dose of biotin studied and shown to benefit hoof wall growth.

      Comment


      • #23
        If you can find Gateway MSM, it is a quality product at cheap cheap prices. I get it locally--five pounds, 26 bucks. 99.9% pure.

        It's this product, but my local price is better.

        http://www.su-perstore.com/m7/sfemsm...re-powder.html

        Ah, it's produced in Colorado. Probably explains my pricing...

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        • #24
          Unless my math is off, Animed at horse.com is cheaper still, at $22 for 5lbs or $39 for 10lbs, and thats 14,000mg per .5 oz serving. Can't believe I've been shopping at horse.com all this time and missed this! My spidey senses are usually so accurate

          http://www.horse.com/item/animed-pure-msm/SLT700318/
          Being terrible at something is the first step to being truly great at it. Struggle is the evidence of progress.

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          • #25
            The problem with using a biotin-only supplement is that biotin is limited by the amount of methionine available, which is why (nearly) all hoof supps have both.

            2 things to consider:
            - horses are very good at making their own biotin when they're healthy. If they aren't making enough, then you should be looking at digestive issues and/or the basic feeding program
            - a horse is more likely to be lacking sufficient methionine than being able to make enough biotin, so *I* would be making sure there is plenty methionine. But:
            - ok, 3 things methionine is only as useful as there is enough lysine, and it's even more likely a horse would be lacking enough lysine than he is methionine, especially when on only grass/hay.

            SO, making sure there's enough lysine in the diet makes sure all the available methionine can be used, and making sure there's enough methonine makes sure all the biotin the horse is making can be used.
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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            • #26
              Southern States sells AniMed MSM and it's dirt cheap. Probios from Southern States or Tractor Supply (assuming you're in there already...you can save on the shipping). Farriers formula, unless it's available locally, you're going to have to pay to ship. Find free shipping.

              Then, for containers, cheap little tupperware type containers.

              Comment


              • #27
                I know it's hard to find, but you really need to get MSM that is not made in China. China has such horrific water control standards, and it takes a lot of water to produce MSM. I just can't remember which brands are not from China
                ______________________________
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  LauraKY, Southern States is where I'll get the Animed Biotin. :-)
                  Last edited by Lori B; Dec. 12, 2012, 06:41 AM. Reason: clarification
                  I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                  I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    I'll get it here (or possibly at Southern States, locally) next time.

                    I would love to see someone else 're-engineer' their supplement purchases.

                    I may drop the biotin at some point, but since it's inexpensive and easy to get locally, I'll keep it for now.
                    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #30
                      I'll get the MSM at Horse.com or statelinetack.com (or possibly at Southern States, locally) next time.

                      Would love to see someone else 're-engineer' their supplement purchases.

                      I may drop the biotin at some point, but since it's inexpensive and easy to get locally, I'll keep it for now.
                      I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                      I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I've been making my own supplement baggies for a while...okay, years. I'm a huge fan of SmartPak, their customer service, their SP branded products, really everything...except I really don't like the waste of all that packaging for supplements.

                        Someone said it above, but I make the bags for each day and put them in a used Platinum Performance bucket - it seals really tight. Over time the ziploc bags will quit closing (I reuse them week after week) because of dust from the powders. The PP bucket keeps everything 'fresh' without closing the tops of the bags (if you place the bags upright, even on top of each other they'll stay put). This works really well if you're traveling too, just put the whole bucket in the trailer.

                        I don't put ProBios in the bag; I add it at the time of feeding.

                        And last thing, I make my bags every 5-10 days. You might find making a month's worth is a lot. Plus, if you need to make an adjustment (and the worst adjustment is taking something out of the mix) one week in....well now you have 20 wasted bags. I did not figure that out in advance.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          I think I'm going to go w/ some dollar store type tupperware containers, and just store them in the drawer I already have from SmartPak. I am committed to making this as easy, if not easier, for my wonderful BO, who does enough special request, per horse stuff.
                          I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                          I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            If I may offer up some advice on the containers, having done several types myself over the years:

                            Spend a little more $$ and get good ones with screw on lids. It won't take but 1 Winter of cold weather to start cracking the cheap, thin plastic peel/pull off lids of the Dollar Store variety

                            Target/Walmart/etc have nice multipacks of small bowls with screw on lids for $4-5 or so for a 4-pack.
                            ______________________________
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Not to mention some of the cheap plastic pull off lids can be a huge pita to get off with gloves on
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                feeding a probiotic daily for years doesn't make any sense- it's supposed to be a living source of bacteria that takes up residence in the gut and replicates itself. Once you've seeded the gut well, there's no point in continuing to feed the probiotic. Generally you only need to re-seed the gut after something happened, like giving the horse antibiotics. Then you'd feed probiotics for oh, two weeks and stop, having fully re-seeded the gut.

                                also MSM really only works if the horse has overt symptoms of arthritis, and if the horse has overt symptoms of arthritis, you're probably going to want to be giving more than just MSM for maximum relief of symptoms. If the horse doesn't have symptoms of arthritis, feeding MSM won't do anything to prevent symptoms.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Lori B View Post
                                  I'll get the MSM at Horse.com or statelinetack.com (or possibly at Southern States, locally) next time.

                                  Would love to see someone else 're-engineer' their supplement purchases.

                                  I may drop the biotin at some point, but since it's inexpensive and easy to get locally, I'll keep it for now.
                                  I get a 4lb container of Select MSM for around $20 at Southern States so you might want to check with them before you pay shipping from somewhere else.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by wendy View Post
                                    feeding a probiotic daily for years doesn't make any sense- it's supposed to be a living source of bacteria that takes up residence in the gut and replicates itself. Once you've seeded the gut well, there's no point in continuing to feed the probiotic. Generally you only need to re-seed the gut after something happened, like giving the horse antibiotics. Then you'd feed probiotics for oh, two weeks and stop, having fully re-seeded the gut.
                                    Many probiotics don't actually "re-seed" the gut--they are more transient inhabitants that eventually pass through. The point, though, is that they are there to take up space in the animal's microbiome and therefore try and prevent overgrowth of "bad" bacteria (such as Clostridia).
                                    Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Here's what we use for reusable supplements containers at work- they are cheap, last forever and are do-able with gloves on.
                                      As for the farrier's formula- check out Biotin 800 (I know Jeffers has it and it often has free shipping).
                                      "Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        These look like they would work well and be reusable many times....

                                        http://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Freeze...ef=pd_sim_k_30

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I went to the local restaurant supply store and bought souffle cups. They come in a ton of sizes from 1 oz to multiple cups (I think I got the 1/2 cup size), they have proven to be very durable/reusable, and if I ever do lose/break one, it only costs me about 1 cent.
                                          Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

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