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Now what? Hind end NQR, rehab not working, how to proceed?

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  • #61
    Flash - If you are able to figure a way to keep the mare comfortable, it sounds like she is still a useful horse for your daughter and husband. I really hope the vet exam sheds some light on it!

    Accupuncture is always something to look into as well. I feel for you and for the mare! Keep us posted!

    Comment


    • #62
      FG, I am sorry, I know you must be feeling very tired right now and discouraged. She is indeed lucky to have landed with you because you will do right for her, no matter what that means. Hopefully its going to mean serviceably sound at some point.

      Something I always try to remember about OTTBs is that track sound is not always the same as sport horse sound, and people often are just telling you what they know - which often, is not much. Her case is a little special tho, with the history in her race records. If you can talk to the trainer himself he may have more info, or not, but it never hurts to try. I have had some fascinating conversations with trainers, some good, some bad, some illuminating. Its worth a try.

      I wish I could put my hands on her
      "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
      ---
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #63
        Maybe I should have been more aggressive from the start, but life was so crazy through the spring and summer, I kind of back-burnered her. It was like eh ok she's still lame.... probably just her feet, or something.... can't deal with it right now, but she's comfortable enough doing nothing, so I'll just leave her be. I watched her cart a kid around the local shows the summer before, so it never occurred to me that she'd have a persistent lameness issue.

        Then this fall when I changed barns, tried to start working her, etc. and she just got worse and worse...had two more lameness evals, I realized we had a bigger problem than I thought. And now I'm kind of like Oh Sh!t because I can't even keep her sound enough for turnout! Which I find particularly disturbing.

        I admit to being waaaay out of my depth on this one. The other broken ponies I had were fixed with basic horsemanship and good common sense. Like, you need to feed them, and get their feet trimmed, more than once in awhile.

        Anyway there is a lot of good information in this thread and tonight when I get back from the barn I shall go through again and make some notes....

        Remind me why I do this? I've been on the go for 12 hours, it is now 7pm, I have a 45 minute commute to the barn, in the freezing rain... to hand walk my lame horse... hopefully I am home by 10pm upon which I will crack open a bottle of wine and do some research on ulcer meds, pain meds, etc. *I* am going to need some ulcer meds and pain meds if I continue to "do the horse thing." (Womp, Womp, first world problem! :P )
        We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

        Comment


        • #64
          It wont make a bit of difference if you dont handwalk her, in the big scheme of all this FG. You may want to just head to the bottle LOL
          "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
          ---
          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #65
            Well, found out a little more... apparently she was chased through fences a few times, beat up in pasture, etc. Nothing specific but just a lot of bumps, scrapes, etc.

            Holding out hope the x-rays of her LH give us a clue and it is something we can address effectively. I suspect her pelvis is out of whack either due to the wonky LH, or maybe she injured it running through a fence or whatever prior to coming to me. So still going to try the chiro and hope for the best.
            We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by FlashGordon View Post
              Well, found out a little more... apparently she was chased through fences a few times, beat up in pasture, etc. Nothing specific but just a lot of bumps, scrapes, etc.
              Very possible she attempted to jump one of those fences at one time and got hung up and hurt and then would just run through them after that. I'd definitely get Xrays of the stifles and see about a chiro and an accupuncturist for her hind end.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #67
                Quick update.... Sesamoid calcification and subsequent damage to the suspensory in her left hind. Old injury. Vet wasn't terribly optimistic at first but watched her go under saddle and she looked pretty good today (mind you having been on stall rest and bute for awhile.) She said I can bute every other day, ride her conservatively when she looks good, watch the footing, try to prevent a turnout situation where she can really get motoring or get chased around a lot.

                She said because the damage is old and she said there is not a lot we can do at this point, it is what it is, and I am ok with that. Just happy to finally have an answer and my hunch about that LH was right... so I am glad I finally investigated it.
                We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                Comment


                • #68
                  FG - Glad to know you have a diagnosis and can hopefully work with it. Sounds like a small individual paddock is in order for her turnouts so she doesn't get tearing around. *Hugs*

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #69
                    Thank KTB. I also heard this morning that when she went through the fence prior to me getting her, she nicked an artery in her left hind on a T-post, and was in some kind of full leg cast for quite awhile. I wouldn't be surprised if she sustained the other damage to that leg at that time too, though it could be an old track injury, who knows. Either way at least I have an "answer" as to WHY we've been having trouble with her hind end, and that leg in particular.

                    A friend mentioned ACP for cases like hers where there is something old and chronic going on, so I am going to look into that.
                    Last edited by FlashGordon; Dec. 15, 2012, 10:50 AM. Reason: info
                    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      (eta read the updates above and i still think putting her out in pasture for a year or two would yield positive results - if nothing else it will give the ligaments time to re heal)

                      i didn't read the entire thread, but have you tried just tossing her out for a year or two and seeing what happens?

                      I suggest this because i personally have a couple soft tissue injuries that took over a year (or ten!) to heal and they only began to heal when i stopped doing anything remotely athletic (riding didn't seem to bother it thank god) .... each time i decided to say - go to the gym or go for a walk/run i would re-injure and faced another 6 months of downtime.

                      we have also used this method for various horses that were broken and with enough time many of them will come right again.

                      soft tissue is very difficult to heal well, is very fragile, and it takes a long time.

                      if it were me, i would put her out in pasture - if she is lame now then put her in the smallest enclosure you can that keeps her from running etc and gradually, over time, increase the size of her space so that she is finally in a pasture.

                      it is a long road but is the best option many times.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #71
                        MBM, it has crossed my mind. I may try riding her over the next month, see how she goes, and if she continues to have persistent lameness then I am just going to chuck her out for a good long time... somewhere that she won't get beat up on by other horses.

                        My vet said because it is old, and obviously was not treated aggressively from the get go, there isn't a ton we can do now. I'm sure if I took her to Cornell or somewhere they could find *something* to do, but my vet was of the opinion that at this point it's a pretty big crapshoot given that it's old.

                        I've had a range of emotions from being happy that I just have an answer, to being annoyed that I didn't know about it before I took her on, to being bummed that her longterm soundness is highly questionable.
                        We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          FG- Did the vet mention anything about laser therapy? Even though it is old, it may still benefit from laser therapy (the tendon, not the sesamoid)

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            But how does that explain how she was sound enough to ride and show not that long ago, and is now very, very lame?

                            It sounds like an old problem was reinjured, or that an old sesamoid injury now caused a suspensory injury, rather than "just" being an old problem that you can't do anything about now. Hind suspensory injuries require very careful rehab if soundness is the goal. Did the vet ultrasound the tendon?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Is it high or low?
                              "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                              ---
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #75
                                Simkie, the mare was really lame/sore when I got her and I had a vet out 3x last spring. After 3 months of carefully bringing her along, treating her both like a dead green horse and a horse with a soft tissue injury (only because my gut instinct was telling me to, not because I had anything to go on) she had about 6 good weeks through June-July. A friend took her to a local show and did 2 flat classes with her, and my daughter did leadline. Not a week later, she and three other horses got out of a pasture and went cavorting down the road. It was a disaster scene-- one ended up with a broken leg, another fell and injured her hock. My horse was dead lame again, I had another lameness eval by a new vet, and then moved her to a new barn.

                                After that I kept trying to bring her back into work, but we've learned through trial and error that she's definitely not anywhere near 100%. When she's stalled more and on anti-inflammatories, she ranges from OK to pretty good. When she's getting regular turnout in a big field and regular riding, she goes quite lame again. I've subsequently had the vet look at her 2 more times.

                                The vet did all the diagnostics she could when she came out Thursday, spent several hours with us, watched her longed, ridden, the whole 9 yards. Her opinion is that it's an old injury, either track related or from the fence post incident last fall, that has healed in a manner that has hindered her soundness. It is likely that when she was galloping down the road in July she reinjured it. The pelvic soreness and shortness on the RH is likely the result of her compensating for the LH.

                                I'm looking into PRP or Shockwave, or having the calcification rubbed down. My current vet is conservative, yes, but she is good and a high level dressage rider herself, she's tight with Cornell and I trust her assessment. I was prepared to haul the horse either there or Cleveland Equine Clinic if she deemed necessary. Her feeling is, verbatim "it is what it is" at this point. The horse will never be 100%, regardless of what I do, and that she didn't think a lot COULD be done beyond what we've already accomplished with our own diagnostics.

                                So I'm going back to treating her like a soft tissue injury, lots of walking, then trotting, and just see what happens. Try to work her lightly but regularly, watch her turnout situation, keep her on the bute or whatever we decide is easiest on her stomach.

                                I'm sure I could spend a good year and 10k and still end up where we are now, so at the moment I'll follow the vets advice. If in the next 1-2 months I'm finding we are not making progress or going backwards I will have to re-evaluate. There is nothing acute that we can jump on at this moment anyway.

                                If I could go back in time and change the way things were handled prior to her coming to me, I sure would, but all I can do is work with what I have at this moment.

                                ETA: EqT, low
                                Last edited by FlashGordon; Dec. 15, 2012, 05:20 PM. Reason: more info
                                We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #76
                                  Also gotta talk to the farrier again, to see if there is anything we can do to make her more comfortable. She looked better when we put shoes on behind earlier this fall, but then was quite lame after her reset.
                                  We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Low. Any old splint damage there? Of course when suspensories swell, they then often interfere with other things, and damage themselves. Damn things.
                                    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                                    ---
                                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #78
                                      Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
                                      Low. Any old splint damage there? Of course when suspensories swell, they then often interfere with other things, and damage themselves. Damn things.
                                      No, thank goodness. That was her concern also. Especially as she had seen exactly that two times the week before. She was like bad things come in threes... yeah great! Luckily we were spared.
                                      We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                                      Comment

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