• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Old sesamoid fracture - is this as bad as I think it is?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Old sesamoid fracture - is this as bad as I think it is?

    I just got an OTTB. The horse is beautiful with wonderful conformation (if it weren't for the pin firing marks, you'd never guess it was an OTTB), a fantastic mover (my goal was to ride it in the lowest levels of FEI) with a stellar character and smart as a whip; picked up leg yielding on day 1 of riding. The place it came from told me it had pins in its legs, but they didn't do xrays. I got xrays, but was afraid I was wasting my money. This is a tough horse, and it shows no signs of lameness; flexion didn't pick up anything. Just minorly sensitive in the suspensory when vet really tweaked it. Vet looked at these xrays and said they totally didn't see this one coming, but is subtly hinting that I may want to rethink keeping the horse (since vets can't really advise clients whether or not to continue a purchase/ keep a new horse, I guess that's pretty serious). If these were xrays of a new horse you really liked a lot and otherwise seemed perfect, what would you do? Thanks!
    Xray 1
    Xray 2

  • #2
    Can you repost the films without the red circles?

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Sorry about that; I sent those to people earlier that didn't know where the sesamoid is.
      Xray 1 no circle
      Xray 2 no circle

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh, wow. That is impressive.

        Pretty is as pretty does, though. If the horse is sound and doing what you want now then you've got to factor that in. If the horse is sound sitting in a field doing nothing and you want to do more with him, I would probably pass.

        Comment


        • #5
          My horse has an old sesamoid fracture that looks way worse than that although no pins.

          Anyway, he was xray-ed in 2009 and vet said he'd probably need injections along the way. 2012 still doing OK without injections. He is serviceably sound, but just does LL dressage. He did flex pretty bad too on both ankles.

          When I sent the xrays to some well known lameness vets, one said he could jump up to 3 ft and the other said it amazed him the horse was pasture sound.

          This horse is a trooper though and works even when he doesn't feel good. I guess it would just depend on your horses comfort level and when he tells you he can't do it anymore.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            The horse was out to pasture 2 years before I got it, and I've been very careful to keep the work appropriate for a horse that's had 2 years off and doesn't know anything about riding besides racing. So, I have no idea what full work would do to the old injury. But I do know I can only board 1 horse at this time, and previous obligations require the horse (and I) perform at a certain level. My SO quite correctly believes I'd never forgive myself if I accidentally pushed the horse too far and had a break down. But I'd feel pretty bad about tossing such an otherwise nice horse aside. I have another film if it helps anything:
            Xray 3

            Comment


            • #7
              I have an OTTB that I got last year with a fractured seasmoid that looks like a pac man. He has no pins and is completly sound. I do dressage and have been doing some ll eventing with no problem. If the horse is sound with work I wouldn't give up on him. Mine is the kindest best horse I've ever had:

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for the unmarked films....

                I think that the sesamoid could very well become a problem down the road - especially over jumps.

                The current films don't look too bad, but you really need to get a flexed DP view because the original injury may have been bad (condylar Fx + sesamoid Fx) and the back surface of the fetlock joint could be damaged. That's really the only view to evaluate that on, and often DVMs that don't do a lot of work on actively racing horses don't routinely take that one in a fetlock series.

                The screws are no issue at all - BUT again, those two injuries (condylar fracture and sesamoid fracture) together are a little concerning especially if they occured at the same time. To compare - there are three injuries in a "breakdown" - condylar fracture, bilateral sesamoid fractures and suspensory rupture.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I got my horse for free and as a pasture friend for my old gelding. It was a bonus that now I ride him and he's actually a very nice horse with a super temperament and work ethic. If I was buying and had certain goals, it would probably be different.

                  As we all know, you can buy the most perfect horse with the most perfect conformation and the most perfect xrays and have it go lame the next day. Crap shoot.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A long time ago, I had a horse that was an OTTB that had an old sesamoid fracture from his last days at the track (that had healed after being put out to pasture) and he was a rockstar. With regular injections (I believe it was twice a year) in the area where there was arthritis and glucosamine/chondroitin supplement, he was perfectly sound! We showed regularly and did mostly the 3' and some 3'6" hunters with no problems at all!

                    I had purchased him at the age of 11, where he had been going in the smaller hunters lightly. I had him until he was about 14 years old. After I went to college I sold him to someone to was more beginner, and they continued doing the 2'6" to 3' until she went off to college, where I think she then retired him. They knew of his past issue and kept up with the injections/joint supplements and he was fine then too. I think maybe they started adequan when he was older due to stiffness in the winter, but that was it.
                    Originally posted by rustbreeches
                    [George Morris] doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, he prefers Dos Equis

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My opinion would be to keep him. You figure if he went through surgery to repair the fracture and came out sound, he's a strong guy! Work with him and see what happens. If he ends up pushed a little too far and gets sore, take him down to his comfortable level and sell him. For me, it would be worth the chance.

                      My TB mare came to me with old injuries and starved. We competed at 3'6" for years and she never took an unsound step until she was in her 20's. my vet suggested I keep looking after the PPE and X-rays.
                      Strong promoter of READING the entire post before responding.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have a horse with an old sesamoid fracture, occurred roughly 5 years ago. He has evented consistently and fairly rigorously since the injury healed 5 years back, Prelim and Intermediate, without issue. He is currently sound at Intermediate. He is a bit of a freak when it comes to healing and pain tolerance; but, it IS possible to have no issues with a healed sesamoid -- certainly a gamble, but definitely possible.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          I talked to the place the horse came from about my options (my vet is certain there's no way to fix it or even stabilize it, and the horse is in constant pain but is tough enough to ignore it). The place says if I send the horse back, they'll have no choice but to euthanize it if it's in chronic pain. Yay.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I find it hard to believe that the horse is in constant pain but appears sound. I thought it was already fixed?
                            McDowell Racing Stables

                            Home Away From Home

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              There were 2 fractures of the left foreleg. The screws fixed the condylar fracture we already knew about and is a non-issue. The sesamoid fracture was unknown to us until the xrays, and was never treated. The sesamoid fracture is at least nearly 3 years old (the horse last raced in 2-10).
                              Last edited by Wildfire; Dec. 2, 2012, 11:17 AM. Reason: Too many details

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I'm with Laurierace-- don't really see how the vet can tell the horse is in constant pain without any symptoms (like lameness). That said, you have fairly ambitious competition goals where soundness is going to be a huge issue (FEI). I'm not sure this horse sounds like a great fit for you, which doesn't mean he couldn't be a nice horse for someone who only wanted to do the occasional Training/ First Level dressage show or something.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  So the horse raced on this whole mess and has since been doing what you asked him to do without apparent soundness problems? That bodes well in my mind provided you are willing to listen to the horse. If it is FEI or bust then maybe you should pass.
                                  McDowell Racing Stables

                                  Home Away From Home

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    It depends. If he was very inexpensive and you can afford to manage him and retire him down the road if and when he needs it then I may consider. Horses cannot see there own X'rays. Otherwise I would probably keep looking.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Wildfire View Post
                                      I just got an OTTB. The horse is beautiful with wonderful conformation (if it weren't for the pin firing marks, you'd never guess it was an OTTB), a fantastic mover (my goal was to ride it in the lowest levels of FEI) with a stellar character and smart as a whip; picked up leg yielding on day 1 of riding. The place it came from told me it had pins in its legs, but they didn't do xrays. I got xrays, but was afraid I was wasting my money. This is a tough horse, and it shows no signs of lameness; flexion didn't pick up anything. Just minorly sensitive in the suspensory when vet really tweaked it. Vet looked at these xrays and said they totally didn't see this one coming, but is subtly hinting that I may want to rethink keeping the horse (since vets can't really advise clients whether or not to continue a purchase/ keep a new horse, I guess that's pretty serious). If these were xrays of a new horse you really liked a lot and otherwise seemed perfect, what would you do? Thanks!
                                      If you mean the same as I, when you say FEI, either change your goals or find the horse another home.

                                      Vet may be implying that based upon your goals, your home is not the best for the horse - training level dressage & hacking out & the occasional 2' jump place much less stress on horse physiology than FEI dressage (no matter how carefully the horse is brought along).

                                      OTOH I would have a great deal of difficulty returning any horse to a previous home that has brought up the big E as a consequence - is this subtle pressure to ensure you don't return the horse? or do you feel they will thoroughly assess the horse before choosing this as a last resort?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Any chance you could continue to work with the horse for a while and if he doesn't hold up, find him a home with low level goals? I don't buy it that the horse is in constant pain but not showing it; the horse would limp if he was hurting!

                                        It seems a shame that he would either have to be sound enough for FEI or be euthanized; there are a lot of levels in between for a nice horse!!

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X