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Horse won't trot...is he lame?

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  • Original Poster

    #81
    This is my worst nightmare...but could this be EPM?

    Comment


    • #82
      Is the diet helping?

      Did you try the diet and see any difference? Before you posted the video I would have suggested cavaletti to encourage trotting. It helps a lot with cadence, etc, and can be a help with one that wants to pace or canter while they get stronger. But on the video I also thought owie front feet.

      This must be very frustrating. Thanks for sharing so we can all learn something.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #83
        He is on the diet now. About 1 week in so too soon to tell. About half the people who watch the video think its in the front and half think its in the back. Even the vets can't figure out which legs. I've had a couple people suggest EPM which scares me to death. He passed his neuro exam but I guess a test wouldn't hurt. I'm driving myself crazy on this one.

        Comment


        • #84
          The videos clearly show your horse landing toe first. This is abnormal locomotion and nearly always linked to caudal foot pain.

          Can you post some pictures of your horse's feet showing the bottom in closeup? Also pictures from the side at ground level - horse standing square?

          Comment


          • #85
            Looks to me that he is off both front and hind though the hind may be compensatory in nature. Perhaps its time to pull his shoes, turn him out and let tincture of time have a chance to work.

            When idiopathic lameness is present, EPM is always a suspect.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #86
              Wouldn't the nerve block rule out foot pain? I think it was a good nerve block. I watched them poke him with a ball point pen. Also he doesnt react to hoof testers anywhere on the hoof. I will take pictures this afternoon and post them. Hoof pain would make sense but the last vet said we had ruled it out.

              Thanks so much to everyone posting replies. You have no idea how helpful you've been.

              Comment


              • #87
                The nerve block can give you a false positive or false negative. I would also do Abaxial Sesamoid block to make sure.

                Did your horses hocks gets radiographed?

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by mrg8302 View Post
                  Wouldn't the nerve block rule out foot pain?
                  Yes but if it's long term chronic then the horse is acclimated to moving abnormally due to muscle memory. Though there should still be some observable change in the stride.

                  I think it was a good nerve block. I watched them poke him with a ball point pen. Also he doesnt react to hoof testers anywhere on the hoof. I will take pictures this afternoon and post them. Hoof pain would make sense but the last vet said we had ruled it out.
                  I thought there was a diagnosis of "thin soles" at some point in the history. ???

                  Thanks so much to everyone posting replies. You have no idea how helpful you've been.
                  Get some hoof shots posted. Then you'll have enough opinions to be really confused.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #89
                    Ok here are some pictures. His right front has a gouge from where he clipped himself during training (learning to lunge at the trainer). His left front looks beat up because that is the shoe he pulled and had to be reset. I also included his original hoof x-rays from October. This is when he was diagnosed with thin soles and before he had shoes on. He was positive to the hoof testers at this time. We put shoes on him and put him in the pasture for 6 weeks. After that we took him back to the vet for a follow up and he was negative to hoof testers and has been ever since.

                    http://s4.beta.photobucket.com/user/mrg8302/library/doc

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Are those laminitis rings on the black and white foot?

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #91
                        Well I don't know what they are caused from. But none of the vets or the multiple farriers have mentioned them? I sure noticed them though. But wouldn't laminitis show up on X-ray? And make him sore with the hoof tester?

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by mrg8302 View Post
                          Well I don't know what they are caused from. But none of the vets or the multiple farriers have mentioned them? I sure noticed them though. But wouldn't laminitis show up on X-ray? And make him sore with the hoof tester?

                          Most likely but there could be exceptions. You may just want to give this horse some time. If you are going to invest in yet another opinion I would suggest going to a vet school and making sure the head surgeon is present. I wonder if your horse would trot on a tred mill? If thin soles was a previous diagnoses then could not see some pads doing any harm. Previously I was concerned about some minor navicular changes on my of my horses with lameness. The lameness specialist I used dismissed them as there was no response to hoof testers. I asked that question to head surgeon at WSU he said it was possible to have navicular pain on a horse that has no reaction to hoof testers and that a negative PDN block does not preclude hoof pain. I had also asked a contact I had in head of orthopadics in England whom also told me a horse with heal pain may not react to hoof testers. I had asked another contact at CSU whom concurred. Not suggesting that is an issue with your horse just that hoof testers are helpful but not always reliable.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #93
                            I'm trying to contact another vet that works with racehorses and lots of lameness issues. Hopefully he can come out this week. I'll ask him about the lines in the hoofs. After that, I'll probably pull his shoes and leave him alone for now. Give my wallet and my mind a rest for several months. The crazy thing though him running around the pasture, bucking, sliding to a stop inches before the fence...he can't be hurting too bad if he is doing that. I'm thinking of putting him out with my other 2 horses...maybe will be good for his mind. It's been 4 months since he was gelded so he should be ok to go out with mares.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              I don't know how far you are from a vet school but vet schools often provide more workup for less money than a local vet. Our vet school jogs and lunges the horse on a soft surface and pavement, videos some exams, has a top notch ultrasound and high quality digital films. I had a mini lameness exam, including X-rays for $240 recently. Then we went to the hospital farrier. I left with a sound horse. Admittedly, I probably overreacted when I made the same day appointment an hour after my horse became lame, so it probably wasn't a difficult diagnosis. I panicked when he was lame, thinking it was something bad.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #95
                                I'm about 4 hours from Texas A&M so that is an option. However they are not cheap. But it is something for me to think about. It may be something only a vet school has the technology to figure out.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  I would take the horse to Texas A and M. Get a friend to go with you as you may forget to ask all of your questions if you go alone. Tell them that money is an issue. Bring all of your old x-rays so they don't have to repeat all of them. Ask your vet who is the best vet to see there. Years ago, we used to see a Robin Dabareiner, who was a vet at our vet school who later went to Texas A and M. I don't know if she is still there. She was hyperactive and disorganized, but a really good diagnostician. She took one look at our TB, said he had navicular, and injected him. 2 days later, he was sound. Almost 20 years later, his navicular disease is still well controlled. If your vet can't match you up with a good diagnostician, ask the appointment secretary who is the best person for you to see. Explain what you are looking for and she may be able to match you with the right vet.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    I too would get a 2nd opinion on the x-rays and lameness - the xrays honestly scare me a bit. Lot of lucencies and rough edges. I'm not a vet, but having worked on a TB breeding farm, we xrayed all the weanlings/yearlings at least 2X/yr and when I worked at the track, we were obviously xraying a lot... and frankly, I wasn't impressed with your boys xrays - the right seems worse than the left. BUT since I'm not a vet, obviously I can't be positive - but something about them worries me.

                                    Based on what I saw on the videos, I definitely think it is his front end that is worse and his hind end is awkward because he is compensating.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by mrg8302 View Post
                                      Ok here are some pictures. . .
                                      Oh dear! How long has it been since this hoes has had its heels trimmed?

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #99
                                        5 1/2 weeks ago he had those shoes put on. A farrier just looked at him last week and said he didn't have enough growth to work with. He said to wait 2 more weeks. Why? What do you see?

                                        Comment


                                        • In my opinion, your first step should be to find another farrier. Your horse needs his feet done by a competent professional. Check around for recommendations on good farriers in your area...may need one experienced in therapeutic work. If you decide to haul him to A&M, be sure they have one of their farriers available to work on him. You'd be surprised how often issues like you're seeing with your gelding are a result of poor trimming/shoeing.

                                          If you can't find good recommendations, maybe call A&M and ask who they recommend in your area. Good luck with your guy.

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