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Horse won't trot...is he lame?

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  • Original Poster

    #41
    Sorry for the multiple posts. I keep thinking of new questions. If it is pssm would the bute test have any effect? If tomorrow when he is worked after all that bute, if he is obviously better would that rule out pssm?

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    • #42
      It's my understanding, and I could be wrong, that any descendent of Impressive could possibly be HYPP+, but I'm sure other QH people here will correct me.

      But my primary reason for asking if he's an Impressive descendent is because I know they're a tweaky lot.. I speak from experience. And, though the EPSM diet will help the horses affected by HYPP to a degree, it's also beneficial to many horses. Mine's HYPP/NN but has benefitted from higher fat, lower carb/ NSAID diet. As an aside, I had a HUGE problem with canter on my horse for the first 4 yrs I owned him. Seven trainers did as well. Maturity, low carb/ hi fat diet, who-knows-what finally got this horse to where he's more cooperative at canter, but he defied logic before the diet change.

      I'm taking a huge leap thinking your colt would benefit as well.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Sansena View Post
        It's my understanding, and I could be wrong, that any descendent of Impressive could possibly be HYPP+, but I'm sure other QH people here will correct me.

        But my primary reason for asking if he's an Impressive descendent is because I know they're a tweaky lot.. I speak from experience. And, though the EPSM diet will help the horses affected by HYPP to a degree, it's also beneficial to many horses. Mine's HYPP/NN but has benefitted from higher fat, lower carb/ NSAID diet. As an aside, I had a HUGE problem with canter on my horse for the first 4 yrs I owned him. Seven trainers did as well. Maturity, low carb/ hi fat diet, who-knows-what finally got this horse to where he's more cooperative at canter, but he defied logic before the diet change.

        I'm taking a huge leap thinking your colt would benefit as well.
        Not a QH person, but a genetics geek:

        The HYPP allele is passed sire-get or dam-foal. Its not a random mutation (just the passed on copy of the original mutation)

        So if I crossed Impressive-bred HYPP N/N with an HYPP NN horse, they could NOT produce an N/H or H/H foal. Period.

        Goes like so:
        HH + NN = 100% NH offspring
        HH + NH = 50% NH 50% HH
        NN + NH = 50%NN 50% NH
        NH + NH = 50% NH 25%NN 25%HH

        Which is why breeders will breed NH horses, because they MIGHT get a normal foal, or they might not. Which is why those who want HYPP gone for good want all NH and HH horses unregisterable, and there foals unregisterable as well. Bang, HYPP QHs gone in 1 generation.

        Comment


        • #44
          I would try putting him on the PSSM/EPSM diet and see what happens.
          Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
          Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
          "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

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          • Original Poster

            #45
            Update: the bute test had no effect. The trainer said he moved the same today as he always did. So I guess it isn't really a pain thing?

            I think I'm going to just go pick him up and bring him home. There are so many pssm diets out there. Any suggestions? How quickly do you change his diet? I have no choice but to put him on the pasture for right now. Is that bad? Seems stalling would be worse?

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            • #46
              Do a search on here for PSSM and check out Dr. Valentines rural heritage website to start.

              I'm sure keeping him out and moving will help.

              Jingles for your boy! Good luck!
              Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
              Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
              "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

              Comment


              • #47
                Is there any chance at all that the horse is confused and just thinks he is supposed to be cantering?

                I would certainly investigate the EPSM/PSSM angle thoroughly, but I think it would be terribly interesting to use clicker training to teach the horse that you WANT him to trot. Horses get so *engaged* in learning with clicker training--the few I have played around with really start thinking about what you want and offering behaviors--that perhaps it would be an interesting way to reinforce the few trot steps you're able to get.

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                • #48
                  If it is something muscle-related, you would probably have more success in using a course of robaxin instead of bute.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #49
                    I guess it's possible he just doesn't understand or prefers not to trot. I wish he could just tell me. I'm going to keep working him at home. Maybe lunging over poles on the ground would encourage a trot? Gosh, I'd love it if that's all this turns out to be.

                    I'm going to send off the hair samples too. And maybe have another trainer evaluate him. And change his diet in the mean time. Who knows?!? I'm not too familiar with clicker training for horses, but it sure works with dogs so I'm certainly willing.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      My first thought is slipping stifles as well. I have a very smart gelding who had the whole..how to not have my stifles slip..totally figured out. Every once in a while he would swing a hind leg. The other reason is his age. He is in that age where there is alot of change happening...angle closing and opening as he grows behind. The other idea is cavalettis...with the reward. I picture him jumping the cavalettis but once he gets the idea...trotting through the cavalettis... and gets the reward he will know what you want though I would imagine you would have detected frustration with trying to figure out what is wanted. Personally I would decide it is a maturity issue and turn him out for a year. Lots of young horses just are not ready to work yet at his age. Good luck.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Oh the slipping stifles gelding has grown out of the problem and is now in training as a 4 yo with no problems.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Despite the common wisdom(SIC) in the QH world, it absolutely does no harm to a horse to just let it be a horse and forgo all training except maintaining ground manners (which ought to be established before weaning) until it is more than three years past its foaling date.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #53
                            Update: horse is negative for pssm 1

                            I've been working him lightly in the round pen and can get him to trot now. But it isn't pretty by any means. Hoping it will slowly get better!!

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              one shouldnt be doing small circles on baby neddies, you must go large
                              as small circles puts strians and stresses on undeveloped legs and mussles

                              go large- and find a dressage trianer or driving trianer to show you how to long rein- the horse is 2 1/2yrs old do not run before one can walk

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                OP--Reread Tom Bloomer and goeslikestink's posts. And then reread again. And again. You have a quirky horse already. Lots of round pen work in an already potentially lame-ish horse who's also a youngster is a really bad plan if you want long-term soundness. I absolutely positively don't mean to be a cranky snot, but if it were my horse, I'd lay off ALL training until I either had 1) a diagnosis or 2) 6 months of quality time with Dr. Green...aka pasture rest.
                                Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

                                You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  If you got a chance would be very interested in seeing a video of your horse trotting.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    While I don't think working a two year old horse lightly in the round pen once in a while is going to do damage, I agree that given this horse's issues, it would be best to kick him out into a field for several months to let him grow and sort through all of his changing body parts.

                                    Babies do weird shit sometimes as they grow and feel out their own bodies. It's as likely as anything else at this point that your horse just hasn't figured out his parts yet as they have grown and changed and just needs time to be a baby horse and work it all out in his head.

                                    FWIW, I have a two year old now. She'll be three in March. You know what she's doing? Not a damned thing. She's out with the herd, on acreage. She's not been backed. I bring her in and groom her and work on basics like trailer loading and general manners. She has been in the round pen a few times to begin to learn voice commands. Sometime late next summer I'll sit on her a little bit and then kick her back out until early summer of her four year old year, at which point she'll be brought in and start into a real program.

                                    CAN a 2 year old be in a full program? Sure, sometimes. Some even manage to stay sound, even when they're started that young, although many have problems. But there's obviously something weird going on with yours, and I would just give him some time to be a baby since you've not been able to really ID something *wrong* just yet...

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #58
                                      It's very light work he has been under. 10 minutes or so per day with 2 days off per week. And that's only been the past 3 weeks. I agree though. Best thing might be to turn him back out for 6 months.

                                      I can't upload videos to YouTube from work but I could email them. I'll try to upload from home later

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by mrg8302 View Post
                                        Update: horse is negative for pssm 1

                                        I've been working him lightly in the round pen and can get him to trot now. But it isn't pretty by any means. Hoping it will slowly get better!!
                                        If he is 2 1/2 years old and already 15.3 and 1100 pounds he may be big and uncoordinated. Halter horses can be kind of odd, like a body builder just meant to stand there and look, well muscled. Is he overly big and muscled? Does he have good sized feet to support himself or are they tiny compared to the rest of him?

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          #60
                                          This is him. He is a big guy. A little fat. He has nice hooves. Not too small for his body

                                          http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...104299BE6B.jpg

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