• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

The insurance dilemma

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The insurance dilemma

    Let me start by saying that I have pretty much always kept my horses insured with theft/mortality and medical/surgical. I figure that I have easily shelled out over $20,000 on premiums over the past 20 years (different horses, different policies). I have only filed two claims in that time, for veterinary expenses, and have recouped maybe $5000 in total (one claim was for some high end diagnostics).

    Last year, I dropped the value on both of them to get my premiums down to a manageable rate, but I am still looking at close to $2000/year to insure them. So, for the first time ever, I am seriously considering dropping coverage on both of them and just taking my chances with fate.

    Good idea, or not?
    Last edited by DownYonder; Nov. 12, 2012, 02:52 PM. Reason: clarification

  • #2
    Never insure what you can afford to replace or repair. JMHO
    Jerry

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by chirojerry View Post
      Never insure what you can afford to replace or repair. JMHO
      Jerry
      Amen.

      And thus endeth the lesson.

      G.
      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm the third vote for not insuring if you can afford the expenses.
        We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

        Comment


        • #5
          I insure purely for peace of mind, and told my insurance agent I hope it's all a waste of money.

          I can not afford to shell out for colic surgery in one fell swoop right now, and have two horses for whom I would go that route. Same with very expensive care for some sort of lameness. Those two are therefore insured. The other two are lower value and one is crippled where any kind of recovery from a major surgery would likely be extremely hard on her poor weakened legs and leave her suffering. They are not insured.


          My goal is to have enough to be able to instantly pay for colic surgery or other major incident on a horse if it were needed (eye surgeries seem to have been a common one for folks I know recently), but for now I don't have that money saved up and the peace of mind is worth it to avoid worry.
          If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
          -meupatdoes

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by chirojerry View Post
            Never insure what you can afford to replace or repair. JMHO
            Jerry
            Yup.

            Comment


            • #7
              For some of us, the repair is the clincher. Cost of repair for my gal could run to be over her bargain basement purchase price.

              OP, your situation is most likely different from mine, based on your reported premium.

              Comment


              • #8
                I "self" insure and have for several years. I want control of my horse in the event of a major illness or injury.

                Likewise, when I stopped insuring (7 years ago), I had forked out almost $5000 in premiums in the previous years and had one claim for $450. I now have a plump 5 figure savings account earmarked for the Animal Vet account. I can't/won't go to the ends of the earth to save an animal but my account allows me to not have to make any snap decisions in the middle of the night because I don't have the money.

                Should my financial circumstance change and I have to tap into the vet account for people use...I might just pay out that $500 per year to insure my horse but currently, I am going to pay myself to insure that she has some basic but substantial coverage and that I have control over her medical needs, not the insurance company.

                Susan

                Comment


                • #9
                  insurance

                  One round of pleuropneumonia so far (8 weeks) $9825.00, and it is not over yet. Horse has been in hosp 3 times and is on every 6 hour meds. Partner in horse cancelled insurance without telling me 30 days before horse got sick. Without treatment he would have died a horrible death,and this is treatable (time consuming)without any problems later (all ultrasounds say no lung damage)but bottom line it is looking like bill will be somewhere about $15000.00 when it is done if he keeps improving.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Insurance came in very handy this year for me. Between ulcers and navicular bone fractures, I'm using up every dollar of my $10,000 limit (unfortunately even shelling out a few $1000's more out of pocket). I only just insured my horse a year ago. The clincher for me in my decision to insure was watching another horse at my barn get a little wound above his knee ad it turning into a bone abscess that needed surgery. I thought to myself, what would I do if that were me/my horse? My husband would resent my horse forever if we had to shell out $10,000 at once, nor could we do it.

                    I think horse owners who have not had a major injury/illness and rarely have vet bills are lucky... Or maybe I'm just unlucky
                    "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse..." ~Revelation 19:11

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Individual call. You never give up "control" unless you have a loss of use policy. The insurance company may refuse to pay, but you can certainly still pay for care if you want to -- your call.
                      I just had a mystery lameness -- best way to diagnose was a bone scan, and some moderately pricey treatment thereafter. No question the insurance payout will exceed my premium. I have had some years when this happened, and some years (and some horses ) when it didn't.
                      Sure did like the mortality payout enabling me to buy another horse when mine had a pasture accident.

                      I think this is really a personal choice. I would rather set aside a known quantity of money every year for peace of mind. Others run the numbers and conclude they are likely to come out ahead by simply saving the money. Which sounds better to you? You can come up with many anecdotes about insurance saving money, or being a waste. Comes down to how you like to think about risk and financial commitment. No one right answer.
                      The big man -- my lost prince

                      The little brother, now my main man

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I insured our mare for a few years after I bought her, but then decided to cancel. The only claim I would have had was her tooth extraction and two years later, a sinus flush. By then, she was 18 and would not have been covered anyway. I was glad I had not paid all these premiums for nothing, but that I had the $8K it cost me for these two incidents (including trailering to clinic and message on top of vet visits, clinic stays...)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I understand your pain. I've dropped my mortality value to lower levels-nothing close to replacement value but it would get me a green bean. I'm more interested in keeping the medical/surgical in place. If you drop the medical/surg could you get into some kind of program that pays for colic surgery. That one always seems like the most likely. I'm keeping mine in place for the time being. A number of years ago I collected for the death of a young hunter.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I just dropped the insurance on my horse end of last year. I had it for about 6 years. I dropped his value twice. He is getting close to the cut off age anyways.

                            I filed 2 major claims (2006 and 2009) that maxed out the amount allowed for each claim (about $20,000). Unfortunately, he is not covered for those specific issues anymore.... that whole exclusion thing once they have an issue that you file a claim on which pretty much leaves only 1 leg insured and that's about it. He had LF, RH, LH issues from a dropped hip (2006) and then emergency colic surgery (2009). So 3 legs aren't covered and ANY gastro issues aren't covered. Well, to me, that pretty much makes up the whole horse.

                            I figured I got my money's worth. I paid much less in premiums for those 6 years than if I had to pay both of those huge bills.

                            But at this point, since nothing big is really covered anymore, I decided to drop it. I decided before then what I would treat and not treat with my guy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just insured my horse and it is good for my peace of mind!!! I was going to insure him when he finished his training at the end of this year but he cut himself last month and the vet bill was more than what his premium would have been for the year. I ended up going ahead and insuring him early. I am more interested in the major medical than the mortality but obviously have both since mortality is required.
                              RIP Sucha Smooth Whiskey
                              May 17,2004 - March 29, 2010
                              RIP San Lena Peppy
                              May 3, 1991 - March 11, 2010

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I think it depends on a couple of things...

                                What is the monetary value/replacement value of the horse? If it's a big number and not something you could afford to do out of pocket, then insurance makes sense.

                                What are you willing to do medically/financially? For me, I would not pursue a colic surgery on my mare. But some people might. (I can't get medical on my mare at this point anyway due to age, so it's a moot point...just using it as an example.)

                                I have not (knock on wood) had any horse related vet bills that were more than 2-3k in the last 25 years of having multiple horses. I don't own any high value critters. So for me, insurance would probably be a waste of money. The high dollar procedures I can think of are not on my list of options. I just wouldn't do them.

                                My DOG on the other hand? He has cost me more in the last 12 mos than any combination of horses have in 30 years. I WISH I had had insurance on him from the get go.

                                Good luck!
                                A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                                Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I found the exclusions and limitations so confusing that I gave up on the idea and have decided to self insure. We have more than enough to pay for any prodcedure that I would consider. It might be a fight to bring DH around to the idea of paying 10K for colic surgery, but there is no question that if the prognosis were positive, I can and would afford it.
                                  Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
                                  Witherun Farm
                                  http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Regardless of who you go with, make sure you know your policy inside and out! Is your horse insured for "agreed value" or "actual cash value" (fair market value)? With agreed value, if your horse is insured for $10,000 and the horse dies, the insurance will pay out $10,000 as long as there is proof of value. With actual cash value, you may be paying premiums on $10,000 for 5 years, but if your horse dies, the insurance company will only pay out what your horse is worth at the time of death (fair market value). If the economy tanks, etc., and the fair market value is only $4,000, that is unfortunately all you will get.

                                    Most horse owners are under the impression that if they insured their horse for $20,000 and they've paid their premiums every year that they will get $20,000 if they die. Unfortunately, no always true!

                                    Regardless of the insurance company you choose, please, please, please make sure to keep good records on your insured horses - including pictures, video and show records....and remember to continue to update them! I've done several very tough equine appraisal cases in which the owner didn't have a single photo or video of their insured horses that passed away, no show record, nothing....which makes it extremely tough to prove their value! And, if you feel like the insurance company is giving you the run around, and you truly believe your horse is worth more, get your own independent equine appraisal done and present it to the insurance company. I do a lot of these...and it does work!

                                    I've got a few insurance tips and tricks on my website and on our Facebook page to help horse owners...so my job isn't so hard if someone needs to make a claim at some point!
                                    Daventry Equine Appraisal Services
                                    www.equineappraisers.com
                                    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
                                    Home of Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
                                    Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness
                                    www.EquineAppraisers.com

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X